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Old 7th September 2011, 13:11   #101
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
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Can someone explain to me why calling front-foot no-balls in international cricket hasn't been made the responsibility of the third umpire yet?

Does anyone actually think this shouldn't happen?
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Old 7th September 2011, 19:47   #102
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Can someone explain to me why calling front-foot no-balls in international cricket hasn't been made the responsibility of the third umpire yet?

Does anyone actually think this shouldn't happen?
The third umpires probably. Can you imagine sitting for 6+ hours watching a foot landing on the ground? I'd want to kill myself.
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Old 8th September 2011, 00:02   #103
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I was just about to admit that I agreed with the large majority of your last two posts, Sans, when I got to the end of the last one. To be characteristically more interested in the bits I can argue with:

1. While I like a lot of your ideas about off field reviews, and especially agree about no balls, the problem with lbws is that the off field reviewer will at most correct some of the very obvious errors, not all of them and certainly not the ones that probably are wrong even to him but which he doesn't quite feel up to over-ruling his colleague on. We sort of already know this from the umpire led review system used in the Australia v rest of world tests. I appreciate that your biggest focus isn't on accuracy but you must accept that there's a problem with consistency with your approach. There's also the huge issue that we don't have enough good umpires to have three a game at the moment, let alone more.
I agree that there's a problem in that it's the off-field umpire(s) who would effectively have to decide whether or not it's a howler, so there would always be some room for individual interpretation there. The obvious response to the consistency issue is to point out the inconsistencies in the current system -- bad decisions have to stand if they are not reviewed, and exactly the same events can yield out or not out decisions on review depending on what the on-field umpire's call was, because of the "umpire's call" rule; and the only obvious solution to the latter problem under the present system would be to proceed on the assumption that Hawkeye is more accurate than it probably or usually is (an approach which the ICC seems to be resisting). I think we probably have to abandon the quest for consistency, or at least to admit that, though theoretically desirable, it's not the main priority. In any case, I don't think the system I've sketched would be more inconsistent than the current system, whose main demerits in this regard are the involvement of the players and the limited number of unsuccessful reviews allowed. I agree that it would be quite an investment to train the off-field umpires adequately; but in principle their jobs would be less demanding than those of the on-field umpires, since their roles would be quite strictly restricted to specific points of doubt.

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2. Hawk eye, like a lot of mechanical systems, can be fooled by things that a human might pick up (although the on field umpire didn't, as discussed). That doesn't generalise to your further points though. Hawk eye doesn't suffer from a large number of cognitive biases that humans do and humans definitely don't stop making errors when the ball bounces 40 cm in front of the pads. Neither perhaps entirely does Hawk eye but it does become more reliable with more data in a predictable way. One certainly wouldn't expect human accuracy versus Hawkeye to be constant, as the two systems are using entirely different technology, as it were, to make the same judgement, as the discussion just above shows.
You may well be right, but I don't think I know enough about human cognition to understand this. Hawkeye will be limited by the frame speed (i.e. the gaps between data points), but I don't know how continuously the mind can receive data from the eye, or how accurately it can extrapolate on the basis of that data in comparison with the computer, or how its specific cognitive biases affect the issue. On the face of it, eye-and-mind and camera-and-processor would seem to be performing similar types of operation when they extrapolate the hypothetical path of the ball, but they are obviously wired up in different ways. Nonetheless, if the proof of the pudding is whether the TV viewer would deem a howler to have been made, then the eye-and-mind might be the bottom line even if it were to be less accurate than Hawkeye, since won't the TV viewer perform the armchair extrapolation on the same basis as the third (or fourth, fifth, sixth) umpire?
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Old 8th September 2011, 02:42   #104
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Can someone explain to me why calling front-foot no-balls in international cricket hasn't been made the responsibility of the third umpire yet?

Does anyone actually think this shouldn't happen?
I think it should be completely automated as per line calls were at the tennis for a while. The technology is surely very simple - either a small pressure pad or trip laser.

As a bonus the system should be wired such that it automatically sends 10,000 V through the offenders scrotum.
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Old 8th September 2011, 06:12   #105
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I think it should be completely automated as per line calls were at the tennis for a while. The technology is surely very simple - either a small pressure pad or trip laser.

As a bonus the system should be wired such that it automatically sends 10,000 V through the offenders scrotum.
Some of the players may like that too much and that would lead to some proper investigations.

Anyhoo.For Run outs, they should have the bails rest on some electric circuit and when broken the replay should be stopped. That would eliminate some of the crappy "is the bail off or not decisions?"
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Old 9th September 2011, 01:25   #106
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They could have a man sat on a chair next to the crease with little flags like in the Athletics. Or you could have monitors suspended above the batsmen that tell you if you overstep, indicate where you should pitch your next delivery and have a variety of amusing animations like in ten pin bowling. It would help sell cricket to the Americans at least.
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Old 9th September 2011, 04:43   #107
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Anyhoo.For Run outs, they should have the bails rest on some electric circuit and when broken the replay should be stopped. That would eliminate some of the crappy "is the bail off or not decisions?"
I like it. Now that we've solved all the worlds umpiring problems lets crack a beer and watch the footy. Go you little Johnny Plattens!
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Old 12th September 2011, 18:21   #108
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan...ry/532121.html

Err...
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Old 12th September 2011, 18:26   #109
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The latter half of the article is pretty clear on why this has happened.
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Old 12th September 2011, 18:29   #110
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BCCI's fault though, as this would have been sorted out by now had it not been for their objections delaying this being made mandatory.

Whilst the current situation is a mess, I can live with it if the technology just isn't available; what is ludicrous is when the technology is made available to those watching at home, but not to the umpires.
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Old 11th October 2011, 12:07   #111
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DRS no longer mandatory say BCCI ICC.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/c...ry/535954.html

I hope England now insist that it is compulsary in all home series.
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Old 11th October 2011, 18:28   #112
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Hotspot refused to take their cameras to India because some official questioned it along with half the boards unable to pay for UDRS so the ICC had to change the rules.

That's not an interesting story though I guess because it's the BCCI who do everything.

Last edited by ddb : 11th October 2011 at 19:06.
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Old 11th October 2011, 19:28   #113
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Lucky for England, Pakistan has done a good thing and got a sponsor for DRS so can afford it so we don't hear the BCCI runs cricket line all throughout the winter just for the next couple weeks and then in the Aus series.

Would be amazing if the ICC could cover the costs of course after forcing a system to be mandatory and ignoring the BCCI's fears of the cost, wouldn't have to back track like they are now then.
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Old 12th October 2011, 11:08   #114
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Lucky for England, Pakistan has done a good thing and got a sponsor for DRS so can afford it so we don't hear the BCCI runs cricket line all throughout the winter just for the next couple weeks and then in the Aus series.

Would be amazing if the ICC could cover the costs of course after forcing a system to be mandatory and ignoring the BCCI's fears of the cost, wouldn't have to back track like they are now then.
Surely the argument should not be is DRS compulsary but what is included - if hot spot is dodgy then turf it out - don't throw DRS out with it though.

Once snicko can be processed real time it can be added etc.
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Old 12th October 2011, 12:57   #115
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What are the technical reasons for the delay on Snicko. Does anybody know?
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Old 12th October 2011, 13:56   #116
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What are the technical reasons for the delay on Snicko. Does anybody know?
Sound travels slower than light (in theory).
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Old 12th October 2011, 14:58   #117
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Sound travels slower than light (in theory).
Not _that_ much slower.
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Old 12th October 2011, 15:12   #118
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Not _that_ much slower.
I wasn't being _that_ serious
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Old 12th October 2011, 16:05   #119
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What are the technical reasons for the delay on Snicko. Does anybody know?
afaik it needs to be manually edited and then analysed with the graphy thing rather than it constantly running.

Sounds like they should be able to automate it though
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Old 12th October 2011, 21:46   #120
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Sound travels slower than light (in theory).
Also in practice.
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