Cricket 24/7  

Welcome to the Cricket 24/7.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. There are also more forums available to members, such as the Lounge - where members chat about just about anything under the sun except cricket!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   Cricket 24/7 > Cricket Discussion Forums > International Cricket
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Casino Articles Terms of Use Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15th January 2011, 00:46   #1
sweatysock
Established International
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Team(s): Sussex & Scotland
Posts: 3,830
All-rounders

wasnt sure what section this should be on, but there was a golden era in the 1980's where the likes of Kapil/ Imran/ Hadlee/Botham prevailed

These days there are plenty of people who could be defined as all-rounders in the one day game but not many in the test arena - my definition is someone who could score a 100 and take 5 wickets in an innings - and theyd have to do both at least 5 times in both and average around 30 in both disciplines

Kallis is clearly one - although in reality hes probably a batsman who happens to be able to bowl

Anyway any thoughts/ nominations
sweatysock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 03:35   #2
Baron Shakattak Greenback
International Cricketer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London
Team(s): Notts, England, Shakib-al-Hasan
Posts: 2,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatysock View Post
wasnt sure what section this should be on, but there was a golden era in the 1980's where the likes of Kapil/ Imran/ Hadlee/Botham prevailed

These days there are plenty of people who could be defined as all-rounders in the one day game but not many in the test arena - my definition is someone who could score a 100 and take 5 wickets in an innings - and theyd have to do both at least 5 times in both and average around 30 in both disciplines

Kallis is clearly one - although in reality hes probably a batsman who happens to be able to bowl

Anyway any thoughts/ nominations
A dying breed, I think, particularly when you talk about the four above who were all quicks. With the amount of cricket played now, it's just not possible to be a fast-bowling all rounder without breaking down.

The all-rounder of the future will be a poor man's Kallis, either bowling medium-pace or spin, or perhaps a Broad who is a genuine bowler who can bat a bit. One suit will always be stronger, genuine all-rounders are a thing of the past, which is a tragedy because there's a certain magic, an aura about genuine fast-bowling all-rounders which gets bums on seats.

Specialist fielders and wicketkeeper-batsmen are the new all-rounders, in truth.

As for nominations, I think Vettori might be the closest thing to a genuine all-rounder in Test cricket today, or Shakib maybe.
Baron Shakattak Greenback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 05:47   #3
Long Off
World Class
 
Long Off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne
Team(s): Australia
Posts: 5,747
Xavier Doherty. Couldn't bowl or bat.

Watson has a good record. If he can get a couple more years in, he would be Australias best allrounder (excluding Gilchrist) since...well....errr....um....wow it has been a while. I discount the twins, Doug Walters, Greg Chappell and Rod Marsh...since Alan Davidson/Richie Benaud

His form in ODIs and T20s would rank him not too poorly overall in Aussie cricket.
Long Off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 06:23   #4
Pavan
International Material
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Team(s): England, Lancashire, NZ, James Anderson, Swannyg66's tweets.
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Off View Post
Xavier Doherty. Couldn't bowl or bat.

Watson has a good record. If he can get a couple more years in, he would be Australias best allrounder (excluding Gilchrist) since...well....errr....um....wow it has been a while. I discount the twins, Doug Walters, Greg Chappell and Rod Marsh...since Alan Davidson/Richie Benaud

His form in ODIs and T20s would rank him not too poorly overall in Aussie cricket.
Watto's probably been Australia's most consistent bowler during the Ashes, kept things tight, and bowled a good line most of the time.

I'm affronted that Woakes hasn't been named yet as a Future Test Allrounder (FTA? or FETA?), after that thrilling 19 runs in 1 T20I.
Pavan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 06:52   #5
Sir Virgs and Zamora
Posting God
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 18,374
Kallis is a bit more than a batsman who bowls given he has over 500 international wickets. For most of his career he has been third or fourth seamer but batter in the top four which none of those others you mentioned who were primarily bowlers who batter did.

Hadlee was only just an all rounder and I am sure broad averages as much if not more with the bat.

Vettori closest to those bowlers who bat today.
Sir Virgs and Zamora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 07:21   #6
Greatbatch
Established International
 
Greatbatch's Avatar
Easy Southee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): NZ
Posts: 4,904
I think Tim Southee has the potential to be a genuine test all rounder. Obviously he needs to improve his batting and become more consistent but he is already a very handy lower order batsman that can play shots all around the ground.
Greatbatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 07:30   #7
Pavan
International Material
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Team(s): England, Lancashire, NZ, James Anderson, Swannyg66's tweets.
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatbatch View Post
I think Tim Southee has the potential to be a genuine test all rounder. Obviously he needs to improve his batting and become more consistent but he is already a very handy lower order batsman that can play shots all around the ground.
I agree. He played really well under pressure too, building the innings with Williamson (I'm a fan of both, I really like Kane so far, too bad the NZ team is ****).
Pavan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 09:13   #8
Chin Music
Administrator
 
Chin Music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 23,637
Of today's players Watson is the closest to being an all-rounder but his test match bowling doesn't stand up to closer scrutiny. He managed to take a couple of 5 fers v Pakistan but his record is very ordinary outside that. Closer to being a high class all-rounder is Shakib, averages low 30's with bat and ball in tests and also has a good ODI/T20 record. Kolkata Knight Riders have done a fine job in getting him to cross into West Bengal for the tournament.

Kallis was a good bowler early in his career. One of the ironic things about his bowling was that he had a fine record in England with the ball, not so good with the bat, but was very much the reverse in SA whereas he is monstrous with the bat against England but poor with the ball.
__________________
Quote:
"One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated" - Thomas More
Chin Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 09:26   #9
sweatysock
Established International
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Team(s): Sussex & Scotland
Posts: 3,830
what about Matthews - he seems to have some idea and Bravo?
sweatysock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 09:29   #10
Chin Music
Administrator
 
Chin Music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 23,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatysock View Post
what about Matthews - he seems to have some idea and Bravo?
Mathews has some way to go as a bowler (certainly in tests) and Dwayne Bravo is more and ODI all rounder than test match one.

Going back to Watson another problem he has is that he barely bowls enough overs in test matches. That will be down to all those injuries over the years. I can't see that getting much better, strictly a 10 over per day man. If you see the cricinfo records you'll notice his bowling average is 37 at home and in the mid 40's away. It's only when you get to see the 'neutral' tests he played v Pakistan where he gets his average down into the highly respectable low 30's. A respectable 4th seamer for me, nothing more though.
__________________
Quote:
"One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated" - Thomas More
Chin Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 09:50   #11
Kim
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,088
Woakes is our next proper allrounder.
Kim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 09:54   #12
Minor Maggie
Buttleresque
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Lancashire, England
Posts: 26,633
Hasn't Singh scored a test ton?
Minor Maggie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 10:03   #13
Huda
International Material
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Bangladesh
Posts: 1,896
He has, 2 in fact, i wouldn't class him as an allrounder though.
Huda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 10:50   #14
ddb
Established International
 
ddb's Avatar
http://www.cricket-match-special.com/
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,581
Jadeja and Yusuf Pathan.
__________________
"Well, like a few, creaking Terminators, we're back..."
Dravid on his and Sachin's return to Australia to lose 4-0.
ddb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 10:56   #15
sanskritsimon
Legendary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 9,751
Franklin must be in the mix ... used to be a specialist bowler but now bats in the top 6.
sanskritsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 12:20   #16
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Posting God
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,879
Grant Elliott

All-rounders are more likely to be found in the weaker cricketing countries as it's a lower threshold for their primary skill.

The relentless schedule also works against quicks, meaning that spinners are more likely to be all-rounders (Vettori, Shakib) which fits in well with Sir Duncan's theories of the role of orthodox finger spin.
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 12:25   #17
Josh
International Material
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim View Post
Woakes is our next proper allrounder.
He's also the model for the closest we're going to get to all-rounders now they play so much cricket. Frontline bowlers who can make runs at 8, at a pinch 7. Also Broad, Southee as mentioned, Johnson etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Maggie View Post
Hasn't Singh scored a test ton?
Yes but so did Ajit Agarkar.
Josh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 12:28   #18
sanskritsimon
Legendary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 9,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
The relentless schedule also works against quicks, meaning that spinners are more likely to be all-rounders (Vettori, Shakib) which fits in well with Sir Duncan's theories of the role of orthodox finger spin.
I'm not sure that the schedule mitigates against first-choice quick bowlers also being very good at batting. But if such bowlers are liable to be absent from time to time because of injury or exhaustion, then I suppose the point is that it's perilous to build one's team structure around them. So the pressure on spinners to bat well would follow from the fact that they are less likely to break down, not from any notion of how worthwhile or effective their type of bowling is while they are fit.
sanskritsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 12:51   #19
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,623
I've never understood why wicketkeeper batsmen weren't considered all-rounders. I suppose these days they wouldn't get in the side if they couldn't bat so they don't count. I recall once trying to vote for Alec Stewart as my all-rounder of the year in a WCM poll and being disallowed.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2011, 12:55   #20
sweatysock
Established International
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Team(s): Sussex & Scotland
Posts: 3,830
I still think Luke Wright could become one - he is at county level - all he needs to do is improve his batting and his bowling!
sweatysock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:47.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Cricket247.org