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Old 12th November 2016, 13:58   #1
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
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The myth of blooding players?

England's top 3 have all been blooded in India. Now it's too soon to annoint Hameed as England's opener for the next decade as we've yet to see how he'd fare against top class seam bowling when the ball's moving about, but he's certainly looking very promising.

If he does go onto be top class he'll continue a trend of England's best batsmen and all-rounders have been chucked in at the deep end and not eased in with an easy series eg v Pakistan, Sri Lanka or NZ at home, or Bangladesh or Zimbabwe, or West Indies at home since they became ****.

Just look at this list, it's virtually a who's who of English batting:

Cook: India (A)
Hameed: India (A)
Root: India (A)
Pietersen: Australia
Trott: Australia
Thorpe: Australia
Atherton: Australia
Gooch: Australia
Boycott: Australia
Greig: Australia
Botham: Australia
Stokes: Australia (A)
Woakes: Australia
Flintoff: South Africa
Vaughan: South Africa (A)
Robin Smith: West Indies
Nasser Hussain: West Indies (A)
Stewart: West Indies (A)

Given the tendency to hand out caps at the start of the summer/winter when we're playing the warm-up act (Vince, Duckett, Robson, Lyth, Morgan, Carberry, Bell, Rikki Clarke, Anthony McGrath, Ian Ward, Maddy, Habib etc) how come those chucked in at the deep end have been that much more successful selections than those given their chance in more favourable conditions?
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Old 12th November 2016, 14:23   #2
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Wouldn't call Pakistan an easy debut even at home. They've usually had a formidable side, especially the bowling.
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Old 12th November 2016, 14:30   #3
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You missed record breaking bell off that list of whose who but he started vs windies. Did colly debut vs oz in 05? I can't remember.
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Old 12th November 2016, 14:41   #4
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Wouldn't call Pakistan an easy debut even at home. They've usually had a formidable side, especially the bowling.
Agreed, especially for top order batsmen who've had to face the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Gul, Asif, Amir, Riaz and Sami down the years.

Trescothick of course debuted against a West Indies attack that still featured C & C and went on to have a good career. Less can be said for two other English batsmen who made their debuts against the same side nearly a decade earlier.
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Old 12th November 2016, 18:23   #5
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Quote:
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You missed record breaking bell off that list of whose who but he started vs windies. Did colly debut vs oz in 05? I can't remember.
No he'd played a few games before that, debut'd against Sri Lanka away which had to count as a hard one with Murali and Vaas leading their attack.
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Old 12th November 2016, 19:07   #6
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Plunkett debut against Pakistan in 2005 ahead of JA playing. He is one who hasn't worked out in tests at least.

JA got his debut against Zimbabwe in tests but ODIs against Australia. England resisted the temptation to add him to the test squad for the final tests that winter.
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Old 12th November 2016, 23:19   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Maggie View Post
Plunkett debut against Pakistan in 2005 ahead of JA playing. He is one who hasn't worked out in tests at least.

JA got his debut against Zimbabwe in tests but ODIs against Australia. England resisted the temptation to add him to the test squad for the final tests that winter.
If I remember correctly England had 3 Ashes Tests first in 2002 and then the VB Series and then the remaining 2 Ashes Tests. Fletcher wanted him to play in those but he had to go back home for his grandmother's funeral. He played against Zim & SA in 2003 with an knee injury and was rested from Bangladesh Tests. Fit again for the Bangladesh and Sri Lanka ODIs and but sprained his ankle playing tennis with James Kirtley in Sri Lanka and only fit for the last Test.
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Old 13th November 2016, 07:16   #8
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Generally, India is a good country to debut against. Except for Marvan Attapattu, I think most other batsmen who debuted against us have done well, at least against India.
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Old 13th November 2016, 09:55   #9
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Generally, India is a good country to debut against. Except for Marvan Attapattu, I think most other batsmen who debuted against us have done well, at least against India.
unless you're Australian.

Henriques
Maxwell
Cameron White

finished their test careers.
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Old 13th November 2016, 10:50   #10
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unless you're Australian.

Henriques
Maxwell
Cameron White

finished their test careers.
Well, we did give you Michael Clarke. Also, didn't Hayden revive his career after a visit to India? There is, after all, a basic requirement of talent.
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Old 13th November 2016, 11:25   #11
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Well, we did give you Michael Clarke. Also, didn't Hayden revive his career after a visit to India? There is, after all, a basic requirement of talent.
I think Cam White and Maxwell are extremely talented. Just lack judgment and discipline. And don't get 19 tests to prove they're crap unlike some more recent Australian all-rounder prospects...
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Old 13th November 2016, 11:28   #12
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I think Cam White and Maxwell are extremely talented. Just lack judgment and discipline. And don't get 19 tests to prove they're crap unlike some more recent Australian all-rounder prospects...
Haha....true.
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