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Old 9th July 2015, 10:23   #161
Breacan
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Let's put it this way, regardless if 2 people died in 9 months or 2 people die every 9 months, people shouldn't be dying playing sport, especially where caused by the sport itself ie not a heart attack or something like that.
As a blanket statement that's not something I agree with. Part of the attraction of sport is the inherent risk, and this is intrinsically linked with the potential consequences.

Plus, if you take it to the logical extreme, the most dangerous part of most sports is probably driving to the ground. Should we only play sport on grounds we can walk to without encountering any traffic?

What I object to is not the existence of risk in sport, but pretendng the risk does not exist, and that from time to time the risk will eventuate and people will suffer the consequences - including death. Being objective and recongnising risks and their causes is an essential part of assessing whether the risk is acceptable or not - at both an individual and a societal level.
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Old 9th July 2015, 12:48   #162
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As a blanket statement that's not something I agree with. Part of the attraction of sport is the inherent risk, and this is intrinsically linked with the potential consequences.

Plus, if you take it to the logical extreme, the most dangerous part of most sports is probably driving to the ground. Should we only play sport on grounds we can walk to without encountering any traffic?

What I object to is not the existence of risk in sport, but pretendng the risk does not exist, and that from time to time the risk will eventuate and people will suffer the consequences - including death. Being objective and recongnising risks and their causes is an essential part of assessing whether the risk is acceptable or not - at both an individual and a societal level.
Twice the comparison to road deaths has been made but I don't think it holds. Traveling is close to an essential part of our existence, which cricket is not. Secondly if you kill or injure someone while driving you are then subject of an investigation which may lead to a criminal conviction. As a road user, in whatever form, you know there is a risk but unlike facing a fast bowler, you are not expecting other drivers to intentionally aim their vehicles at you from time to time. Car companies, urban planners and legislators also spend lots of resources attempting to minimise risks too.

I'm not saying for a moment that Stuart Abbott or the bowler in the game on Tuesday should be prosecuted. However, all in the game should remain vigilant about this issue and continually evaluate if there is a need to tweak the rules, coaching or equipment to reduce the risk.
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Old 9th July 2015, 13:11   #163
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The Beeb had an article on their website about cricket being unusually dangerous, and not just because of bat and ball, but the risk of lightning strikes as you are in a wide open space often playing in tropical climates (I believe the chances of a person getting hit by lightning are 1 in 300,000, which I guess is much more probable than getting killed in a playing incident), the fact that it is played in some of the most unstable and dangerous places on earth, the high frequency of depression and home sickness of professional cricketers and organised crime having a hold on crooked players. The game needs to keep an eye on all those parts of the sport to keep players safe.
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Old 9th July 2015, 14:13   #164
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The Beeb had an article on their website about cricket being unusually dangerous, and not just because of bat and ball, but the risk of lightning strikes as you are in a wide open space often playing in tropical climates (I believe the chances of a person getting hit by lightning are 1 in 300,000, which I guess is much more probable than getting killed in a playing incident), the fact that it is played in some of the most unstable and dangerous places on earth, the high frequency of depression and home sickness of professional cricketers and organised crime having a hold on crooked players. The game needs to keep an eye on all those parts of the sport to keep players safe.
Yes, this came from the F ICA report.
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Old 9th July 2015, 20:05   #165
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[quote=stevieh;676832]Hold on, Yams, improving safety in playing sports like Cricket and Rugby is important to enable more participants to play.[quote]

Agree entirely, obviously.
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Old 9th July 2015, 22:43   #166
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Twice the comparison to road deaths has been made but I don't think it holds. Traveling is close to an essential part of our existence...
Because we choose to make it so, and accept the risks. We also choose to adopt dangerous ways to do this, and to a large extent, close our eyes to the actual level of risk involved in particular modes of transport we find particularly convenient. (The interesting one is air travel - we perceive the risk to be disproportionately high so go to great lengths to reduce it, even though the highest risk in a flight is getting to and from the airport on the ground.)
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Old 10th July 2015, 12:12   #167
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"Predictable" and "Probable" are not the same thing.

In engineering and failure analysis an outcome can be both a predictable outcome of a design, and highly improbable. The low probability may - depending on the application - be used to justify whether or not to accept the risk; but does not make the outcome any less predictable.
Interesting point and dramatically underappreciated. Engineers will design something knowing how many people they're allowed to kill (usually very few indeed over a long time but still). The air and rail safety comparisons are interesting, because we wildly overestimate risk there, because crashes are high profile dramatic events.

There is a comparison to be drawn with the death of the security guard escorting that prisoner discussed on the news thread. There is clearly a risk inherent in escorting criminals. That doesn't mean that her death wasn't a huge cock up on someone's part (we don't know) but everything could be done well, according to the designs of a sensible and well set up system and there still might be injuries or even deaths.
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Old 15th July 2015, 14:52   #168
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No, but poor Bavalan Pathmanathan is, and Phil Hughes. Only fortune saved Stuart Broad from a career ending or life ending injury and Craig Kieswetter has had to hang up his gloves. I don't want to get into semantics about what constitutes freak or not but I think this is happening too much to sweep under the carpet. Does cricket have to wait until a major lawsuit to change?
It will wait a long time. Proof of intent, or negligence on behalf of any party involved, on which legal action, if it were ever to happen, would need to be based, would be very difficult to furnish.

Risk is part of most activities.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 21:30   #169
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Risk is part of most activities.
Agree, Life threatening risk is only significant because we make it so.

Look at American football. The inertia created by some of the equipment and the numbing of our defensive instincts is enough to distract our natural defenses. Not having full vision can seriously impede the ability of our brain to process what we are seeing.

I could never wear a grill batting. Just helmet with side guards. I found the grill to be more dangerous.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 22:16   #170
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Presumably Gatting thought similar..
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Old 23rd July 2015, 22:26   #171
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Anyhow I was watching a few old clips of this and that today and came across that Dwayne Bravo dismissing KP hit wicket - a short ball rearing up, knock on his helmet off onto the stumps. Looks like it could easily have been another Phil Hughes.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 22:55   #172
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Anyhow I was watching a few old clips of this and that today and came across that Dwayne Bravo dismissing KP hit wicket - a short ball rearing up, knock on his helmet off onto the stumps. Looks like it could easily have been another Phil Hughes.
But it wasn't which is kinda the argument about hughes being a freak occurance in that it resulted in something more serious. Any delivery above waist height that the batsman miscues or higher ones that he takes his eyes off could be another Phil Hughes. Guys get hit on the helmet quite regularly.

More appropriate to the discussion is Rogers who seems to be having a significant after effect from being hit a couple of times. I'm not quite clear on whether this dizziness is a result of the hit or if it's an ongoing issue he's always had.
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Old 23rd July 2015, 23:01   #173
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Rogers probably had benign paroxysmal positional vertigo. That can be precipitated by a knock on the head, which dislodges a bit of grit into the fluid filled balance bit of the ear and confuses it into thinking things are moving when they're not. The effect is very like seasickness whenever you make certain head movements.
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Old 24th July 2015, 09:57   #174
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Interesting. Thanks.
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Old 24th July 2015, 12:12   #175
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Rogers probably had benign paroxysmal positional vertigo. That can be precipitated by a knock on the head, which dislodges a bit of grit into the fluid filled balance bit of the ear and confuses it into thinking things are moving when they're not. The effect is very like seasickness whenever you make certain head movements.
Apparently Rogers has not fully recovered from his dizzy spell although the Australian doctors have ruled out concussion, which is a relief. Does paroxysmal positional vertigo usually clear up in a few days or is it likely to be an on-going condition he needs to manage?
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Old 24th July 2015, 14:40   #176
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Here's hoping Rogers is going to be okay. Seems likely that Marsh is going to be filling in at Edgbaston, given his ton in the tour match.
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Old 24th July 2015, 21:28   #177
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Apparently Rogers has not fully recovered from his dizzy spell although the Australian doctors have ruled out concussion, which is a relief. Does paroxysmal positional vertigo usually clear up in a few days or is it likely to be an on-going condition he needs to manage?
Usually fairly short lived and can generally be corrected by some manoeuvres that clear the bit of grit. He's presumably not totally cured yet though. People sometimes have either persisting dizziness for a while even after or just a general sense of a loss of balance. I suspect he's completely fine to carry on a normal life but you need to be pretty confident you're fine with any sudden movements and with your balance to open the batting, so suspect he'll miss out for the third test. I'd be surprised if he's not fit for the fourth though.

Worth pointing out that I'm not an ENT doctor so not particularly my area of expertise.
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Old 25th July 2015, 00:04   #178
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Usually fairly short lived and can generally be corrected by some manoeuvres that clear the bit of grit. He's presumably not totally cured yet though. People sometimes have either persisting dizziness for a while even after or just a general sense of a loss of balance. I suspect he's completely fine to carry on a normal life but you need to be pretty confident you're fine with any sudden movements and with your balance to open the batting, so suspect he'll miss out for the third test. I'd be surprised if he's not fit for the fourth though.

Worth pointing out that I'm not an ENT doctor so not particularly my area of expertise.
Would love to see what the commentators would make of someone bashing out the Epley Manoeuvre on the field!

My point about KP was that it was that the ball hit low on the back of the helmet (at just the right angle to dislodge it) - a few cm lower and it could easily have struck him like it struck Hughes.

I'm in the freak occurence camp too Slop but I'm just noting how you look at things differently with hindsight - at the time no-one thought it was anything untoward whereas if the same thing happened this week I bet Hughes would be mentioned.

Or perhaps I should say I was in the freak occurence camp - was it so, or are there just near misses (like KP) an awful lot of the time and a death like Hughes is inevitable from time to time?
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Old 2nd September 2015, 10:14   #179
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Rod Marsh says the no ball law should be changed to avoid an umpire being killed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/34123318
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Old 26th November 2015, 21:59   #180
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It's a year since Phil Hughes sadly and so tragically passed away. RIP Phil, forever 63 not out.
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