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Old 28th June 2015, 19:43   #1
Sussex by the sea
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Bairstow, Billings and Buttler the Battle to be Keeper

Bairstow (age 25): 8 inns, 3 100s, 3 50s, average 86
Billings (age 24): 11 inns, 0 100s, 0 50s, average 19

How come Billings was selected ahead of Bairstow in the original ODI squad?
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Old 28th June 2015, 19:48   #2
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Originally Posted by Sussex by the sea View Post
Bairstow (age 25): 8 inns, 3 100s, 3 50s, average 86
Billings (age 24): 11 inns, 0 100s, 0 50s, average 19

How come Billings was selected ahead of Bairstow in the original ODI squad?
Over what period are these stats taken?
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Old 28th June 2015, 21:33   #3
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Let's not rule out the inate stupidity of England selectours here.
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Old 28th June 2015, 21:58   #4
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Billings was one of the batting successes of last year's Royal London Cup - 458 runs at an average of 114 with a strike rate of 154 and HS of 135*. It was inevitable that the selectors would soon want a look at how he would fare at a higher level, especially as the ECB sold the return of the 50 overs competition as being a preparatory competition for aspiring England ODI players.
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Old 29th June 2015, 00:02   #5
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Bairstow fell out of favour for reasons I don't recall or never knew. Perhaps the selectors then forgot about him and went in search of another next big thing.
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Old 29th June 2015, 00:08   #6
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Bairstow fell out of favour for reasons I don't recall or never knew. Perhaps the selectors then forgot about him and went in search of another next big thing.
Lots of falling over and being bowled or lbw in international cricket, I think. The Billings selection was, in a side with a fair bit of bowling already, intended to give us a specialist lower middle order slogger / innovative hitter plus gun fielder. It's a bit like we briefly played Look Right in a similar sort of role when we had Flintoff as a legitimate first pick bowler and second pick batsman.
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Old 29th June 2015, 00:26   #7
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I thought his original selection was as reserve keeper. But when the need for one arose, he was overlooked and Bairstow was recalled. A bit odd, that.

Sorry, I mean not asked to keep wicket, but not dropped from the team, so maybe FS is right that his value as a keeper was not high on the list.
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Old 29th June 2015, 10:12   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sussex by the sea View Post
Bairstow (age 25): 8 inns, 3 100s, 3 50s, average 86
Billings (age 24): 11 inns, 0 100s, 0 50s, average 19

How come Billings was selected ahead of Bairstow in the original ODI squad?
Reverse alphabetical order?
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Old 29th June 2015, 10:38   #9
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Originally Posted by Sussex by the sea View Post
Bairstow (age 25): 8 inns, 3 100s, 3 50s, average 86
Billings (age 24): 11 inns, 0 100s, 0 50s, average 19

How come Billings was selected ahead of Bairstow in the original ODI squad?
I have absolutely no idea what those stats are supposed to be.

It's not their List A records nor their ODI records as Bairstow doesn't even have 3 list A hundreds to his name let alone 3 ODI hundreds. Neither is it their T20 form as Bairstow has a solitary T20 hundred to his name and played 11 innings last year which is more than the 8 seemingly arbitrarily selected.

It can't be first class records as that would be ridiculous to pick someone for ODI cricket based on their first class form.

I also don't understand how someone can even discuss stats for ODI selection without mentioning strike-rate or some stat that incorporates strike-rate.

Are these their averages from a season of Brian Lara or something?
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 29th June 2015, 12:22   #10
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The Billings selection was, in a side with a fair bit of bowling already, intended to give us a specialist lower middle order slogger / innovative hitter plus gun fielder.
Indeed and Billings showed a lot of potential in this role. There is no doubt that Bairstow is the better batsmen but Billings appears better suited to this number 7 role.
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Old 29th June 2015, 13:02   #11
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This doesn't have the making of a classic wicket keeper thread. Bairstow needed time out of the team to work on things, which he has done and took advantage of Buttler's injury. Jonny looked well short of international class in his first stint, not helped by their insistence on picking him as a specialist batsman.

As has been mentioned, Billings was brought into the squad because of his range of hitting.
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Old 29th June 2015, 17:46   #12
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I have absolutely no idea what those stats are supposed to be.

It's not their List A records nor their ODI records as Bairstow doesn't even have 3 list A hundreds to his name let alone 3 ODI hundreds. Neither is it their T20 form as Bairstow has a solitary T20 hundred to his name and played 11 innings last year which is more than the 8 seemingly arbitrarily selected.

It can't be first class records as that would be ridiculous to pick someone for ODI cricket based on their first class form.

I also don't understand how someone can even discuss stats for ODI selection without mentioning strike-rate or some stat that incorporates strike-rate.

Are these their averages from a season of Brian Lara or something?
Nice work. I was a bit busy deconstructing some other stuff to contribute to this threat before now but nice to see a proper demolition job.

I think there is a bit of a question around how useful FC records are in judging one day players. Intuitively I think there ought to be a reasonable amount of overlap but there are clearly players who don't conform: Morgan, just name checked on the England player thread is a good example. He's never been a prolific FC run scorer and wasn't great (although not abysmal) in tests but he's a fine one day player, albeit a streaky one. Hopefully Gabe will pipe up with an analysis that demonstrates that the disparity in averages is largely explained by random variation but equally, there do appear to be some players who thrive in the shorter form of the game. Bevan is another who springs to mind, despite not even being that outrageously quick a scorer. The narrative for him was around his ability to play the short ball and especially real pace.
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Old 29th June 2015, 17:52   #13
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Nice work. I was a bit busy deconstructing some other stuff to contribute to this threat before now but nice to see a proper demolition job.

I think there is a bit of a question around how useful FC records are in judging one day players. Intuitively I think there ought to be a reasonable amount of overlap but there are clearly players who don't conform: Morgan, just name checked on the England player thread is a good example. He's never been a prolific FC run scorer and wasn't great (although not abysmal) in tests but he's a fine one day player, albeit a streaky one. Hopefully Gabe will pipe up with an analysis that demonstrates that the disparity in averages is largely explained by random variation but equally, there do appear to be some players who thrive in the shorter form of the game. Bevan is another who springs to mind, despite not even being that outrageously quick a scorer. The narrative for him was around his ability to play the short ball and especially real pace.
Bevan had an outstanding fc record, it was only tests where he struggled. Hick would be another one similar to that.
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 29th June 2015, 17:56   #14
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Bevan had an outstanding fc record, it was only tests where he struggled. Hick would be another one similar to that.
Bloody hell.

His fc record was even better than that. 57.

That's 17th best in the history of cricket (min 50 innings).

Or 10th best amongst those who scored 10,000fc runs.
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Old 29th June 2015, 17:56   #15
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I have absolutely no idea what those stats are supposed to be.

It's not their List A records nor their ODI records as Bairstow doesn't even have 3 list A hundreds to his name let alone 3 ODI hundreds. Neither is it their T20 form as Bairstow has a solitary T20 hundred to his name and played 11 innings last year which is more than the 8 seemingly arbitrarily selected.

It can't be first class records as that would be ridiculous to pick someone for ODI cricket based on their first class form.

I also don't understand how someone can even discuss stats for ODI selection without mentioning strike-rate or some stat that incorporates strike-rate.

Are these their averages from a season of Brian Lara or something?
First class stats this season. If you want the T20 stats:

Billings, 6 innings, HS of 46, Avg 21, SR 135
Bairstow, 6 innings, HS of 40, Avg 30, SR 127

So actually quite close. Bairstow has looked our best player in T20 without producing an innings of note yet. Ultimately I think Bairstow should be ahead of Billings in all forms, but it wasn't that objectionable to pick Billings to see how he would go. He didn't disgrace himself, and may find himself unlucky to lose out to Bairstow in future series.

In first class cricket, Bairstow is miles ahead - to the point where I was thinking he could supplant Buttler at some time in the future, until some sloppiness returned to his keeping again recently.
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Old 29th June 2015, 17:57   #16
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Bevan had an outstanding fc record, it was only tests where he struggled. Hick would be another one similar to that.
Good point, I added him as a near afterthought but he's not a great example, no.
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Old 29th June 2015, 18:10   #17
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First class stats this season. If you want the T20 stats:

Billings, 6 innings, HS of 46, Avg 21, SR 135
Bairstow, 6 innings, HS of 40, Avg 30, SR 127

So actually quite close. Bairstow has looked our best player in T20 without producing an innings of note yet. Ultimately I think Bairstow should be ahead of Billings in all forms, but it wasn't that objectionable to pick Billings to see how he would go. He didn't disgrace himself, and may find himself unlucky to lose out to Bairstow in future series.

In first class cricket, Bairstow is miles ahead - to the point where I was thinking he could supplant Buttler at some time in the future, until some sloppiness returned to his keeping again recently.
I'm sure there is a legitimate argument for Bairstow over Billings in the ODI side, but it's not one that can be made by purely using fc stats.

Was the our in "our best player" a Yorkshire or England our?
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Old 29th June 2015, 18:12   #18
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I'm sure there is a legitimate argument for Bairstow over Billings in the ODI side, but it's not one that can be made by purely using fc stats.

Was the our in "our best player" a Yorkshire or England our?
Oh definitely Yorkshire, not including Root either. Not that it's a great achievement in our woeful T20 side at the minute.
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Old 30th June 2015, 10:49   #19
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Oh definitely Yorkshire, not including Root either. Not that it's a great achievement in our woeful T20 side at the minute.
I suppose that may be another pointer to red ball and T20 cricket being two completely different games, really.

It's a long time since we've seen a "proper" keeper playing for England. It seems to be the fashion now to go for the better batsman and accept any problems behind the stumps. On that basis, I'd go for Bairstow.
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Old 30th June 2015, 11:13   #20
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Bloody hell.

His fc record was even better than that. 57.

That's 17th best in the history of cricket (min 50 innings).

Or 10th best amongst those who scored 10,000fc runs.
That is Hick you are describing?
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