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Old 2nd December 2015, 23:22   #81
Ali TT
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I kind of scroll past anything to do with it these days but it can derail threads (like here the discussion of Bairstow and Billings has gone the way of Chris Read's test career) which makes it tough going for non-regulars and newbies.
Well it does appear that Billings is carving a niche for himself in the limited overs game where the Yorkshireman is struggling to make a mark. Bairstow needs to demonstrate his ability in tests soon or I fear his international career might end before it's really taken off.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 06:44   #82
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Well it does appear that Billings is carving a niche for himself in the limited overs game where the Yorkshireman is struggling to make a mark. Bairstow needs to demonstrate his ability in tests soon or I fear his international career might end before it's really taken off.
I have to confess that I have been disappointed with Bairstow's return to the test scene. He still seems to have issues playing across the line. I think he probably has only a limited time frame to succeed as a batsman/wicketkeeper if he doesn't do very much with the bat in SA.

I'm surprised though that he's not had much of a go in the limited overs game. He had a pretty impressive return to the ODI side versus New Zealand.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 13:09   #83
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On the subject of keeper-batsmen, today is the 110th Anniversary of the birth of Leslie Ames, described by KCCC in its press release as "widely regarded as the greatest wicketkeeper batsman of all time" (yeah, have that, Aussies). In this current era of chunkier bats and shorter boundaries, it's incredible to think he stills holds the Test record for most runs before lunch (123 of them, v SA in 1935).

I've no idea whether he and Tich Freeman had a secret set of signals, though.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 18:14   #84
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Anyway, now we've all agreed that a sign was impossible in the mentioned scenario we can move on.

We have three keepers in 'the squads' so are we seeing this as a position of strength or weakness?
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Old 3rd December 2015, 18:22   #85
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Anyway, now we've all agreed that a sign was impossible in the mentioned scenario we can move on.

We have three keepers in 'the squads' so are we seeing this as a position of strength or weakness?
Strength unless Jonny "can't pick the Googly" bairstow is the one with the gloves.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 18:27   #86
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Strength unless Jonny "can pick the Googly" bairstow is the one with the gloves.
I'd say there a much of a muchness with the gauntlets. Would need to see more of Billings though, which I doubt will happen any time soon.

If Buttler sorted out his approach for test batting it would be no contest.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 21:29   #87
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I'd say there a much of a muchness with the gauntlets. Would need to see more of Billings though, which I doubt will happen any time soon.

If Buttler sorted out his approach for test batting it would be no contest.
Agreed. They just need to tell him to go and whack it. Saffer attack could be perfect for him.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 21:51   #88
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I'd say there a much of a muchness with the gauntlets. Would need to see more of Billings though, which I doubt will happen any time soon.

If Buttler sorted out his approach for test batting it would be no contest.
I suppose so, but then that's probably true of any of them. Bairstow is in the test team because he was far and away the stand-out batsman in county cricket last year and was picked as a specialist test batsman. He hasn't yet really nailed down his place in that regard, but I think there's much more reason to think him capable of doing so than there is with Buttler. I wouldn't have picked Buttler in the test squad for South Africa. It clearly isn't just a case of "telling him to go and whack it" (as Sir Virgs suggests), otherwise the problem would have been solved some time ago. Buttler's heroics in the recent ODI series haven't told us anything about him as a test batsman that we didn't already know some time ago; and during that time, he's forced his way out of the test team. I don't think anything but masses of first-class runs should be able to force his way back in.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 22:00   #89
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I'm not sure I rate Bairstow's batting that highly Sans, sure he's good at County level but most of Yorkshire's top 6 are!

I guess Bairstow is in a tough position regarding nailing a permanent slot. Is he labelled as a no. 5/6 batsman or the keeper?
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Old 3rd December 2015, 22:19   #90
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I'm not sure I rate Bairstow's batting that highly Sans, sure he's good at County level but most of Yorkshire's top 6 are!

I guess Bairstow is in a tough position regarding nailing a permanent slot. Is he labelled as a no. 5/6 batsman or the keeper?
Bairstow's certainly promised more than he's delivered, and Chin is right to say he would be well advised to nail it soon, since there are various other promising candidates. But I wonder how many of them could be picked as specialist test batsmen. That for me is a significant factor. For all the talk about this keeper's batting or that keeper's batting, I think Bairstow's the first candidate since Stewart to be picked as a specialist batsman first. Anyway, we'll see. I expect he'll start the series vs SA as our test keeper -- and he's played very well against them before.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 22:46   #91
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I suppose so, but then that's probably true of any of them. Bairstow is in the test team because he was far and away the stand-out batsman in county cricket last year and was picked as a specialist test batsman. He hasn't yet really nailed down his place in that regard, but I think there's much more reason to think him capable of doing so than there is with Buttler. I wouldn't have picked Buttler in the test squad for South Africa. It clearly isn't just a case of "telling him to go and whack it" (as Sir Virgs suggests), otherwise the problem would have been solved some time ago. Buttler's heroics in the recent ODI series haven't told us anything about him as a test batsman that we didn't already know some time ago; and during that time, he's forced his way out of the test team. I don't think anything but masses of first-class runs should be able to force his way back in.
I do genuinely think that by the way.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 23:04   #92
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I do genuinely think that by the way.
So what's your plan? Reinstate Buttler to the test team and tell him to just go and whack it? And what will you do with Bairstow? Drop him? Or keep him as a specialist batsman? Would you consider unleashing your miracle cure for all batting ills upon him too? Indeed, why stop there?
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Old 3rd December 2015, 23:14   #93
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So what's your plan? Reinstate Buttler to the test team and tell him to just go and whack it? And what will you do with Bairstow? Drop him? Or keep him as a specialist batsman? Would you consider unleashing your miracle cure for all batting ills upon him too? Indeed, why stop there?
Buttler would go straight back in for me, yes.

Jonny b needs to figure out that he is allowed to hit the ball through mid on. He can't hit test bowlers through mid wicket and square leg with the skill that kp and trott had. That said, I would have him in the side. Cook, hales, Taylor, root, bairstow stokes, buttler, moeen, woakes, broad, Jimmy. Best England tail in history (it will need to be with hales, Taylor, Jonny and stokes)
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Old 4th December 2015, 01:33   #94
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Bairstow's certainly promised more than he's delivered, and Chin is right to say he would be well advised to nail it soon, since there are various other promising candidates. But I wonder how many of them could be picked as specialist test batsmen. That for me is a significant factor. For all the talk about this keeper's batting or that keeper's batting, I think Bairstow's the first candidate since Stewart to be picked as a specialist batsman first. Anyway, we'll see. I expect he'll start the series vs SA as our test keeper -- and he's played very well against them before.
If Bairstow doesn't deliver in the SA series, Billings could get his chance as test keeper in 2016, unless our man Buttler has an outstanding start to the first class season.
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Old 4th December 2015, 09:43   #95
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Anyway, now we've all agreed that a sign was impossible in the mentioned scenario we can move on.

We have three keepers in 'the squads' so are we seeing this as a position of strength or weakness?
I wouldn't mistake self-affirmation for agreement. I remember an extraordinary claim that a signal designed not to be seen, if it wasn't seen, couldn't have been made, though. They are no longer here, I see.

Keeping ability wise, there seems little to choose between the candidates and they can all clearly bat. Much will depend upon how their individual strengths and weaknesses are thought to measure up to those of the bowlers they are likely to be facing.
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Old 4th December 2015, 09:54   #96
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Keeping ability wise, there seems little to choose between the candidates and they can all clearly bat. Much will depend upon how their individual strengths and weaknesses are thought to measure up to those of the bowlers they are likely to be facing.
Yes, and I feel with Billings, he needs to demonstrate that he can occupy the crease and build an innings. He has the ability to do far better than pass fifty only twice in nineteen Div Two knocks (last season). One thing I do like is his approach to playing pace - very good at swaying out of the line and dropping his hands, and I fancy he's learned that from Key.
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Old 4th December 2015, 10:02   #97
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What's your opinion on Billings as a keeper, Summer?

No doubt you've seen more of him than most of us.
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Old 4th December 2015, 10:10   #98
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What's your opinion on Billings as a keeper, Summer?

No doubt you've seen more of him than most of us.
Competent and athletic but not as all-round polished with the gloves as Marsh (S) and Knott. He strikes me as a hard worker and I'd expect him to develop.
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Old 4th December 2015, 11:18   #99
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Competent and athletic but not as all-round polished with the gloves as Marsh (S) and Knott. He strikes me as a hard worker and I'd expect him to develop.
Better to quicks than spinners then I'd presume....?!
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Old 4th December 2015, 11:31   #100
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Competent and athletic but not as all-round polished with the gloves as Marsh (S) and Knott. He strikes me as a hard worker and I'd expect him to develop.
Can he pick the Googly or will he need a signal?
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