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Old 7th December 2015, 11:35   #221
slop
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Ha! After all that they lose the last five wickets for 5 runs off 26 balls. That's one heck of an humiliating defeat, I'd argue. Not just the magnitude in runs lost by, but after all that fannying around they still manage to succumb to a crushing defeat.
The magnitude was inevitable and pretty much beside the point as far as SA was concerned once they decided to block it out. As you said yesterday, futile, but SA were getting a lot of praise for their performance from all sides up to the end. They wouldn't have received even that if they'd gone for it and still succumbed to a massive defeat. At least this way they leave with at least a few sessions played on their terms, and a bit of time in the middle for Amla, AB and Faf before the England visit.
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Old 7th December 2015, 11:40   #222
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Ha! After all that they lose the last five wickets for 5 runs off 26 balls. That's one heck of an humiliating defeat, I'd argue. Not just the magnitude in runs lost by, but after all that fannying around they still manage to succumb to a crushing defeat.
It was always going to be soon once ABD was gone. They do have a rather lengthy tail. How much of this series loss would affect SA is to be seen. The only pluses could be that Amla and du Plessis did spend some time out there in the middle during this test and might have got some of their form back.
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Old 7th December 2015, 11:47   #223
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The magnitude was inevitable and pretty much beside the point as far as SA was concerned once they decided to block it out. As you said yesterday, futile, but SA were getting a lot of praise for their performance from all sides up to the end. They wouldn't have received even that if they'd gone for it and still succumbed to a massive defeat. At least this way they leave with at least a few sessions played on their terms, and a bit of time in the middle for Amla, AB and Faf before the England visit.
I don't really anticipate that this performance will have much influence over England's tour coming up but although Faf and Amla got some time out in the middle, I'm unconvinced that amassing 35 runs off 341 balls will have boosted their confidence.

There was one benefit to going for it and getting out quickly-an earlier flight home. I see no victory, moral or otherwise, in doing what they did.
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Old 7th December 2015, 12:01   #224
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I don't really anticipate that this performance will have much influence over England's tour coming up but although Faf and Amla got some time out in the middle, I'm unconvinced that amassing 35 runs off 341 balls will have boosted their confidence.

There was one benefit to going for it and getting out quickly-an earlier flight home. I see no victory, moral or otherwise, in doing what they did.
They clearly did though, which is more the point. As did many commenters. Not sure you can mark them down for not copping out and taking the early flight home. It probably won't have any affect on the England tour, I'm not much into Psykology anyway, but it won't harm SA.
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Old 7th December 2015, 12:34   #225
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I'm not surprised commenters have lapped up this performance after some supine batting efforts this year. However, I don't think this was a particularly great example of a backs-to-the-wall performance, certainly not by South Africa's high standards. Perhaps, in fact, their complete shut down on the scoring front further exemplifies the gaps in the modern batsman's technique- the inability to stick around and still keep the score board ticking over.
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Old 7th December 2015, 12:47   #226
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From India's perspective, they finally managed to bowl the opposition out twice on a pitch that wasn't as spin friendly as the previous ones. Also, at least Rahane and Kohli managed to score some runs as well. Hopefully, we have seen the last of Rohit Sharma in test matches, but I doubt it as he is seen to be close to Kohli and Shastri.
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Old 7th December 2015, 13:04   #227
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I'm not surprised commenters have lapped up this performance after some supine batting efforts this year. However, I don't think this was a particularly great example of a backs-to-the-wall performance, certainly not by South Africa's high standards. Perhaps, in fact, their complete shut down on the scoring front further exemplifies the gaps in the modern batsman's technique- the inability to stick around and still keep the score board ticking over.
Is there anything in your lexicon between supine and great? I'd take this one innings in context of the match and series, not much more.
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Old 7th December 2015, 20:19   #228
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From India's perspective, they finally managed to bowl the opposition out twice on a pitch that wasn't as spin friendly as the previous ones. Also, at least Rahane and Kohli managed to score some runs as well. Hopefully, we have seen the last of Rohit Sharma in test matches, but I doubt it as he is seen to be close to Kohli and Shastri.
In some ways the most encouraging sign was Yadav's performance in this game. Since his impressive debut season, he has been a real disappointment - bleeding runs without taking the wickets to justify his profligacy. This performance might mean nothing at all, just a blip before he returns to the usual rubbish - but if he can actually build on this performance then India might stand just a slight chance away from Asia.

Odd one for SA - on the one hand, this was an immense display of determination and fight, and batting five sessions in the fourth innings of an away Test is a pretty brilliant achievement any time, leave alone on the last day of a long tour with a flight home beckoning. Yet after taking 20 wickets and losing by c.100 runs in the previous two Tests (by no means a thrashing), on paper they've suffered a comprehensive defeat in this game, losing by 300+ runs and failing to bowl India out twice.
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Old 7th December 2015, 21:53   #229
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2 days late but got there just.
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Old 8th December 2015, 01:11   #230
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In some ways the most encouraging sign was Yadav's performance in this game. Since his impressive debut season, he has been a real disappointment - bleeding runs without taking the wickets to justify his profligacy. This performance might mean nothing at all, just a blip before he returns to the usual rubbish - but if he can actually build on this performance then India might stand just a slight chance away from Asia.

Odd one for SA - on the one hand, this was an immense display of determination and fight, and batting five sessions in the fourth innings of an away Test is a pretty brilliant achievement any time, leave alone on the last day of a long tour with a flight home beckoning. Yet after taking 20 wickets and losing by c.100 runs in the previous two Tests (by no means a thrashing), on paper they've suffered a comprehensive defeat in this game, losing by 300+ runs and failing to bowl India out twice.
Interesting isn't it? You'd look at the previous two tests (excluding the rain ruined one) as humpings because they lost so easily in the end but yes, the attack at least emerged with a bit of credit while this one, which looked surprisingly likely to be one they'd get out of with a draw (India were above evens at times during the 4th, 5th and 6th wicket partnerships), they couldn't dismiss India second innings and scored painfully few runs in either innings.

On the whole a very poor series for SA on somewhat unfair wickets, although losing all the tosses made the disparity between the spin bowling seem even starker.
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Old 8th December 2015, 01:35   #231
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Is there anything in your lexicon between supine and great? I'd take this one innings in context of the match and series, not much more.
I have plenty of other words in my lexicon, such as "stereoisomer", "immunosuppression" and "lexicon". None seemed particularly relevant to this discussion however.

In the context of this game, and no more (as I have already said above), I thought the tactics employed were wrong. I didn't see the point and it ended pretty badly for the tourists. And of course that's my opinion, wouldn't be anyone else's.

As to the series, I've been very surprised at just how poor the South Africans have been. Possibly worse than the Aussies in 2013. I guess it's no mean feat replacing the players retired recently and a hard job made harder by the injuries to their first choice seamers. Amla's lack of form not helping but as an English fan I fear his recovery will be just around the corner.

India look like a home town bully and no more from this series but the same could be said for the other major nations too.
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Old 8th December 2015, 09:25   #232
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I have plenty of other words in my lexicon, such as "stereoisomer", "immunosuppression" and "lexicon". None seemed particularly relevant to this discussion however.

In the context of this game, and no more (as I have already said above), I thought the tactics employed were wrong. I didn't see the point and it ended pretty badly for the tourists. And of course that's my opinion, wouldn't be anyone else's.

As to the series, I've been very surprised at just how poor the South Africans have been. Possibly worse than the Aussies in 2013. I guess it's no mean feat replacing the players retired recently and a hard job made harder by the injuries to their first choice seamers. Amla's lack of form not helping but as an English fan I fear his recovery will be just around the corner.

India look like a home town bully and no more from this series but the same could be said for the other major nations too.
This is Long Off's line and he's right. If South Africa ensure their tracks have good pace and bounce, I don't rate many of England's batsmen's chances, not that I really rate them anyway.
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Old 8th December 2015, 09:44   #233
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This is Long Off's line and he's right. If South Africa ensure their tracks have good pace and bounce, I don't rate many of England's batsmen's chances, not that I really rate them anyway.
It's the lack of quality batsmanship that's the problem. To succeed away from home you need batsmen who can dig in for a while until they adapt to the conditions. There just isn't that mentality among most lineups currently so you get collapse after collapse. As a whole bowling seems to be a bit stronger across the piece with the exception that there's no truly good spinner who can perform on most wickets.*

*jury out on Yasir until he plays outside Asia.
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Old 8th December 2015, 09:46   #234
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It's the lack of quality batsmanship that's the problem. To succeed away from home you need batsmen who can dig in for a while until they adapt to the conditions. There just isn't that mentality among most lineups currently so you get collapse after collapse. As a whole bowling seems to be a bit stronger across the piece with the exception that there's no truly good spinner who can perform on most wickets.*

*jury out on Yasir until he plays outside Asia.
Exactly, I thought most of the Indian batting in the series was abysmal too. However SA managed to collapse on the first day in Bangalore and in the first innings of the Delhi game when they weren't confronted with bunsens, just a lack of patience in dealing with the conditions.
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Old 8th December 2015, 09:53   #235
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Exactly, I thought most of the Indian batting in the series was abysmal too. However SA managed to collapse on the first day in Bangalore and in the first innings of the Delhi game when they weren't confronted with bunsens, just a lack of patience in dealing with the conditions.
Despite numerous comparisons between Pujara and Dravid, the former really does not have the technique or patience of the latter. Murali Vijay has been consistent both home and away, but the likes of Kohli and Rahane haven't shown the same form at home. On Indian pitches, any batsman would have to really show great patience and graft their way. Once the batsman is set, it is quite difficult to dislodge him. One person who has understood this very well is Alastair Cook. Hashim Amla just happened to have forgotten that during this tour.
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Old 8th December 2015, 13:15   #236
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Despite numerous comparisons between Pujara and Dravid, the former really does not have the technique or patience of the latter. Murali Vijay has been consistent both home and away, but the likes of Kohli and Rahane haven't shown the same form at home. On Indian pitches, any batsman would have to really show great patience and graft their way. Once the batsman is set, it is quite difficult to dislodge him. One person who has understood this very well is Alastair Cook. Hashim Amla just happened to have forgotten that during this tour.
The same applies on faster pitches in England and the southern hemisphere. If you are an Aussie batsman facing a world class swing and seam bowler like Stuart Broad on a green top you need to rein in your attacking instincts and dig in for a while. It's a simple axiom really - if you find yourself in an unfamiliar surrounding, take time to adjust and adapt.
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Old 8th December 2015, 22:48   #237
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On the whole a very poor series for SA on somewhat unfair wickets, although losing all the tosses made the disparity between the spin bowling seem even starker.
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As to the series, I've been very surprised at just how poor the South Africans have been. Possibly worse than the Aussies in 2013. I guess it's no mean feat replacing the players retired recently and a hard job made harder by the injuries to their first choice seamers. Amla's lack of form not helping but as an English fan I fear his recovery will be just around the corner.

India look like a home town bully and no more from this series but the same could be said for the other major nations too.
No doubt the doctored pitches, losing the toss each time and losing their main seamers all made things look worse for SA (the loss of Steyn hasn't received a great deal of comment - just bulletins on his injury status mainly - but we just can't underestimate just how big a loss his absence was). It was still surprising to see how meekly their batting subsided though given they have been the most resilient of all of the test sides in recent years.

Agree on India. They deserve credit for the win because whatever the pitches etc they were relatively better, but this three spinner strategy on dustbowls will be put into stark perspective when David Warner, Joe root et al are flaying the Indian seamers around on a pacy pitch where the Indian batsmen have been rolled over for nothing.
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Old 8th December 2015, 23:30   #238
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This is Long Off's line and he's right. If South Africa ensure their tracks have good pace and bounce, I don't rate many of England's batsmen's chances, not that I really rate them anyway.
Hard to understand England's decision to leave out Plunkett. he would be formidable on the pacey and bouncy South African tracks. With Broad and Anderson they could do a great deal of damage to this fragile South African batting line up.
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Old 9th December 2015, 08:14   #239
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Hard to understand England's decision to leave out Plunkett. he would be formidable on the pacey and bouncy South African tracks. With Broad and Anderson they could do a great deal of damage to this fragile South African batting line up.
I'm agreed on that. I found it strange that they left him out of the SA tour when you would have thought he would be a better option than Woakes or Jordan. Unless they play Footitt, there is a danger that England's bowling will look rather one-paced unless Stokes can crank it up, which he can occassionally. The loss of Wood, and to a certain extent Finn means that I am less convinced that the bowling unit will be quite as effective as it could otherwise be.
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Old 9th December 2015, 08:46   #240
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The same applies on faster pitches in England and the southern hemisphere. If you are an Aussie batsman facing a world class swing and seam bowler like Stuart Broad on a green top you need to rein in your attacking instincts and dig in for a while. It's a simple axiom really - if you find yourself in an unfamiliar surrounding, take time to adjust and adapt.
True, but the opportunity to play your strokes would be a bit more because of the ball coming on to the bat. In England and the southern hemisphere, leaving the ball would matter a lot while in India you probably would have to play at it more, especially against the spinners. That said, totally agree with your point that batsmen need to take time to adjust and adapt before they can start scoring runs.
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