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Old 17th November 2015, 08:38   #141
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In all probability. Certainly if they don't try.

A benign pitch (with a few cracks admittedly), an impotent attack. A chance to risk losing to go 1 all. A chance for the new aggressive style NZers to show that it is more than talk and at least start with the intention of being aggressive. Or block out a draw from the start of the innings lol.

Thought they might have at least started with McCullum. If he is still out there after 1/2 hr the required run rate would be looking quite different.

ps. England, with a much less accomplished batting line up (re an ODI style chase) against a far better attack, in much tougher conditions chanced their arm here and almost got there with 206 in 40 overs. It looked comfortable from the beginning and never really in doubt. We were all sad of course, when bad light halted play. The Kiwis have a bigger target, yet also more overs and great batting conditions, good light, against a rubbish attack. In reality, I think Smith might have sent them in to give Midge one last bowl.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/566936.html
It's not as if 200 at 5s is any easier or less risky than over 300 at 6s, after all.
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Old 17th November 2015, 08:45   #142
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It's not as if 200 at 5s is any easier or less risky than over 300 at 6s, after all.
Of course it's different. So are the teams and their relative strengths, as well as the conditions and the circumstances. Points already laid out. Different entirely.

I wouldn't expect England to go for such a target as they are rubbish at quick scoring ODI style run chases compared to WC runners up, the Kiwis (yet they chased more than 5, comfortably). The conditions (really, could they be much better?) and circumstances also vastly different (a weak attack, 1 nil down in the series).

I would be disappointed if Smith didn't at least start out with the intention of chasing the runs, in similar circumstances.

ps. the run rate for the match before their 2nd innings was already around 4, at times much higher?
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Old 17th November 2015, 09:10   #143
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Possibly. That didn't happen though. They bowled 40 overs in 3 hours. Or a little over 13 overs per hour according the results.



That's only just under what is considered ideal and when you consider UDRS reviews, far above what many teams manage in normal circumstances.
So it started fast and then ground to a halt. Funny that.
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Old 17th November 2015, 09:16   #144
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So it started fast and then ground to a halt. Funny that.
If you mean funny in a "humorous" way, then yes, I agree.

Though I have the feeling you might be using the term to infer something entirely different.
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Old 17th November 2015, 09:33   #145
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I wasn't particularly impressed with Clarke's time-wasting in 2013. But it was in 2013. It's now 2015.
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Old 17th November 2015, 10:01   #146
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I wasn't particularly impressed with Clarke's time-wasting in 2013. But it was in 2013. It's now 2015.
This is true but the scorecard was presented as a comparison so fair digression.

Back on topic now.

The pitch won. Oh well.

Isn't the next test the day night affair? Now that IS exciting.
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Old 17th November 2015, 10:08   #147
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The pitch won. Oh well.
Not true - the Aussies won the moral high ground due to their "sporting" declaration. New Zealand killed the game with their negative tactics in not attempting to chase 6.69 runs per over.

Am I on the right track here The Don?
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Old 17th November 2015, 11:33   #148
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Not true - the Aussies won the moral high ground due to their "sporting" declaration. New Zealand killed the game with their negative tactics in not attempting to chase 6.69 runs per over.

Am I on the right track here The Don?
Well done Psyduck!

I knew I would eventually convert some away from the dark side!
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Old 17th November 2015, 12:28   #149
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Err yeah, that was a declaration for closure. The required rate would have been steep for an ODI, adjacent to impossible for a test match. No good reason for the Kiwis to try chasing it unless the bowling had offered a whole load of freebies and even then, they wouldn't have got close. Don't care how potentially aggressive their batting line up was, not sensible to take risks going for an almost unachievable target and find themselves three wickets down with 40 overs left and the wobbles setting in.
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Old 17th November 2015, 12:39   #150
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Fair enough GBG. Sorry if I took it the wrong way.
No worries.

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I wasn't particularly impressed with Clarke's time-wasting in 2013. But it was in 2013. It's now 2015.
Two years is some epic timewasting.

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Err yeah, that was a declaration for closure. The required rate would have been steep for an ODI, adjacent to impossible for a test match. No good reason for the Kiwis to try chasing it unless the bowling had offered a whole load of freebies and even then, they wouldn't have got close. Don't care how potentially aggressive their batting line up was, not sensible to take risks going for an almost unachievable target and find themselves three wickets down with 40 overs left and the wobbles setting in.
I don't think test wins should be given up easily.

Sporting declarations cheapen the currency of a test win. No problem if a team is behind in a series and having to chase to get back in the series, as that position has been earnt.

This one though seemed a bit of a pointless one. Was it mind games as they knew NZ wouldn't chase? I suppose it was probably just a chance for Mitchell Johnson to bow out with a bang.
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Old 17th November 2015, 19:09   #151
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I don't think test wins should be given up easily.

Sporting declarations cheapen the currency of a test win. No problem if a team is behind in a series and having to chase to get back in the series, as that position has been earnt.

This one though seemed a bit of a pointless one. Was it mind games as they knew NZ wouldn't chase? I suppose it was probably just a chance for Mitchell Johnson to bow out with a bang.
I think it was tactically sound enough, although always likely to be fruitless. Despite describing it as a declaration for closure, offering no real risk of losing, which was sensible in the context of the series and the match, it just slightly dangled a carrot, offering a chance that NZ would lose a wicket or two trying to score quickly. Also gave enough overs that there was a possibility, albeit remote, of just bowling them out anyway. If they'd not lost wickets themselves and been able to flog the bowling around, Smith might have considered something like 320-330 in 60 overs, but I think he'd have rejected it as offering more risk than reward and gone for around 350 in 55 instead.
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Old 17th November 2015, 23:45   #152
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No worries.

This one though seemed a bit of a pointless one. Was it mind games as they knew NZ wouldn't chase? I suppose it was probably just a chance for Mitchell Johnson to bow out with a bang.
I think in reality it was for MJ. Other than that, I didn't really see any point in a declaration at all.

Hopefully some mind games as well (appreciated it, if so). Considering the new NZ image of being the fearless and altruistic "devil may care" darlings of the cricketing world. In fairness to the Kiwis it's not their claim and McCullum and his team are to be admired. But this image has been promoted/flogged here since the world cup (along with occasional comparisons to illustrate Aussies lack of merit in general).

The truth is they are a good team that, for their population, are punching above their weight a bit. A team that is pragmatic enough to play for the draw when necessary like everyone else.

We haven't been great hosts so far though.

The lead up match that was abandoned at 1-503, without the Kiwis getting to bat. Ultra flat pitches so far in the series itself. The WACA pitch could be considered an aberration, though the 'Gabba wasn't much better. Balls that need changing too often (one ball was changed after 3 deliveries). I understand no one is going to spend anything on the WACA now, but surely there is a contingency (such as some manual way) to move the sight screen? While the match was continually being held up with sight screen issues I kept wondering if we are still a modern 1st world nation.

Not as though we haven't had much practice at hosting test series (only been doing it since the 19th century).

While we seem to put little effort into what should be the ultimate - test cricket - and a lot about it seems half @rsed...at the same time we can host t20's across different cities every other night for months with all of the faux glamour, noise and mediocrity that it showcases, that goes as smoothly and trouble free as your average Hollywood production.

It probably is good for fans seeing Warner hit on the rise, or Smith flick a half volley to fine leg...from a couple of feet outside off stump (lol) and rack up the big scores. Though surely no one really believes it reflects reality when Trent Bridge (UAE, India) are considered also. Flat pitches make our chances much better, our batsmen relish them and our bowlers will usually find a way. Though at a certain point (ie. the last 2 summers) it gets too much and might be better to rethink the whole plan for the sake of some decent cricket.

A whinge, yes. We should be better than this and have somewhat missed out on what could have been a good, possibly exciting, series. One we could have lost, or at least would have had far greater chance of losing, given decent wickets. A risk we weren't prepared to take, it seems.

Not sure CA put much effort into this tour, or see test cricket as the future.
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Last edited by thedon : 18th November 2015 at 02:23.
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Old 18th November 2015, 07:31   #153
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Cabinboy - as I said. For a short period Mitch was amazing but for the majority he has been a figure of fun.
Cricinfo suggests that it's rather more than a "short period". If anything the converse is the case - for periods he has been a figure of fun, but he has regularly been amazing - and perhaps the majority of it.
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Old 19th November 2015, 11:49   #154
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Shaun Marsh earns yet another recall!
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Old 20th November 2015, 07:48   #155
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Shaun Marsh earns yet another recall!
He's Australia's Rohit Sharma.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 13:34   #156
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Think Pattinson is a cert to open the attack alongside Starc and can't see two spinners playing, leaving the only selectorial decision between Siddle or Hazlewood. Smith was suggesting Hazlewood has had to do a lot of bowling, so there's a chance he might get rested.
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Old 26th November 2015, 10:42   #157
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Steven OK. has been released from the squad. The pitch is said to be green and a bit sporty. Marsh senior is going to bat at number five. Boult has to prove his fitness.
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Old 27th November 2015, 04:47   #158
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It has been an interesting beginning to the test. I find it a bit difficult to spot the ball on TV when it is hit on to the outfield. I heard Matthew Hayden and Alan Wilkins wondering if it would finally come to be a greenish-yellow or so after a time and compared it to tennis, but I don't think that would be a good comparison at all.
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Old 27th November 2015, 07:16   #159
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Starc takes his third to leave NZ at 142/6. Not watching, wonder how the pink ball has behaved so far.
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Old 27th November 2015, 08:03   #160
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Disappointed that they've named the evening break as "Dinner". I'd have thought the "Nipping out to the offie for beers and snacks" break, or maybe "Sneaking back to the fridge for something sweet".
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