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Old 17th December 2015, 09:15   #101
Ali TT
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148/8 now but we've still got Stokes coming in at ten and Taylor at 12, so plenty of batting depth left.
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Old 17th December 2015, 09:57   #102
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Why are Stokes and Taylor batting!? Bizarre.
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Old 17th December 2015, 09:59   #103
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They've promoted Taylor up to 11 I see. The Burnley Lara will be ticking.
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Old 17th December 2015, 10:01   #104
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They've promoted Taylor up to 11 I see. The Burnley Lara will be ticking.
190 all out. That's a pretty dismal session for England.
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Old 17th December 2015, 10:43   #105
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Hales has never had a technique for test cricket. He's always been too loose.

I've still go little idea why Lyth was dropped & has yet to get a recall when the inferior Ballance has.
Hales was considered a blocker when he emerged in CC.
Inferior Balance? I agree he is a 5/6 but please remember he was dropped one Test after an innings without which we would probably have lost the first Test.

Strange I am arguing against you because I probably would have persevered with Lyth.
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Old 17th December 2015, 10:59   #106
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Hales was considered a blocker when he emerged in CC.
Inferior Balance? I agree he is a 5/6 but please remember he was dropped one Test after an innings without which we would probably have lost the first Test.

Strange I am arguing against you because I probably would have persevered with Lyth.
Ballance was dropped after the 2nd test at Lord's where it looked as though that they were just picking him off with his feet stuck in clay. I have already agreed with you that his type of game may more likely succeed at no.5.

Unlike you I can't agree about Lyth. It was the 2nd innings at Cardiff that he made his 1 reasonable contribution of the series. He really didn't know where his off stump was and made a number of careless drives in a short space that is unacceptable at the level he is playing at. Harsh I know but that's top level professional sport. I do think he should have been given the Windies series so he might have been a little better prepared going into that but his lack of game management as the Ashes series went on told its own story IMO. England are where they are with 2 genuine test quality batsmen and 3 spots up for grabs.

In my own view I'm surprised that they didn't give Bell the series off against Pakistan where his game was never likely to prosper versus the spinners and asked him to take a couple of months break before slotting in at 5 for this series now. He has been far more productive there than he has been at either 3 or 4. However that has not happened and England are hoping that at least one of the non-established folk can step their game up. I dread to think what might happen should either Cook or Root have even a mediocre series. I just can't see where the runs will come from.
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Old 17th December 2015, 12:59   #107
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Agree with you on all points Chin, although probably a little generous to Bell, which isn't like you. As a senior batsman he might have been entitled to suggest a series off for the good of his game or had it suggested to him but it generally doesn't work like that and it's not clear that would have offered any solutions anyway.

Have to worry about everyone in the line up other than Cook and Root, yes. You've discussed the others and have to agree with gbg too that Hales is more likely to offer us something down the order than opening but opening is what he's got for now. To add to the concerns, neither Bairstow nor Ali have really looked the part either recently or overall. These aren't happy days for England batting.
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Old 17th December 2015, 13:11   #108
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Agree with you on all points Chin, although probably a little generous to Bell, which isn't like you. As a senior batsman he might have been entitled to suggest a series off for the good of his game or had it suggested to him but it generally doesn't work like that and it's not clear that would have offered any solutions anyway.

Have to worry about everyone in the line up other than Cook and Root, yes. You've discussed the others and have to agree with gbg too that Hales is more likely to offer us something down the order than opening but opening is what he's got for now. To add to the concerns, neither Bairstow nor Ali have really looked the part either recently or overall. These aren't happy days for England batting.
Oh don't get me wrong I am hardly advocating it as an outright solution, rather than acknowledging the situation that we're in that it is better to suggest that there is someone who at least has a proven record as a no.5. I also agree that it is unlike me to be generous to Bell, but in the absence of any wild special pleading on his behalf, I'm more likely to discuss him in a detached manner.

England's most favourable situation is that there are a large number of opponents in test cricket who have many of the same batting issues that England possess, South Africa included.
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Old 17th December 2015, 13:39   #109
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Cape Cobras - Amla 10 from 45 balls.
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Old 17th December 2015, 13:55   #110
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Cape Cobras - Amla 10 from 45 balls.
Van Zyl 15
Duminy 35
Piedt 0
Elgar 0
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Old 17th December 2015, 14:10   #111
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Agree with you on all points Chin, although probably a little generous to Bell, which isn't like you. As a senior batsman he might have been entitled to suggest a series off for the good of his game or had it suggested to him but it generally doesn't work like that and it's not clear that would have offered any solutions anyway.

Have to worry about everyone in the line up other than Cook and Root, yes. You've discussed the others and have to agree with gbg too that Hales is more likely to offer us something down the order than opening but opening is what he's got for now. To add to the concerns, neither Bairstow nor Ali have really looked the part either recently or overall. These aren't happy days for England batting.
Moeen being back to number 8 will be brilliant.
I have a feeling that jos will come back into the test side.
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Old 17th December 2015, 14:38   #112
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England's problem is that other than Root - who we don't seem willing to move - we've only got one player to bat in the top 3 (and I'm far from convinced the captain's going to have a good series). Compton's a makeshift selection to block a bit, but he's not even good enough to open at county level.

The likes of Taylor, Ballance, Bairstow, Hales etc (and probably Vince, Roy and the others on the fringes and even the retired Bell) look more like 4s, if even that high.

If we're allowed some blue sky thinking (although that would involve looking out the window so is verboten) I can think of one player who averages 119 batting at 3 and would relish the challenge.....

In his absence the one consolation is that we bat deep.
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 17th December 2015, 15:01   #113
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This time next year it will be all about Tom Abell.
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Old 17th December 2015, 15:27   #114
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This time next year it will be all about Tom Abell.
I think you said a similar thing about the Overtons last year.

This time can you clarify whether you are talking about on field performances or on field racism?
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Old 17th December 2015, 16:14   #115
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I think you said a similar thing about the Overtons last year.

This time can you clarify whether you are talking about on field performances or on field racism?
Burn. Lol.
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Old 17th December 2015, 16:26   #116
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Good conversation going over England's batting line. The strength of a healthy forum debate eh? Remarkable.

I've missed a lot & don't fancy one of those long multiple quote posts. I'll just say that didn't Cook tell the press that Hales was starting the first test? Or did I imagine that?
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Old 17th December 2015, 19:05   #117
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Good conversation going over England's batting line. The strength of a healthy forum debate eh? Remarkable.

I've missed a lot & don't fancy one of those long multiple quote posts. I'll just say that didn't Cook tell the press that Hales was starting the first test? Or did I imagine that?
I think both he and Bayliss effectively said that in separate interviews, although I think Alastair was particularly careful how he worded it.
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Old 17th December 2015, 23:17   #118
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The way I look at it, who are the best five batsmen in the squad. Root, Cook, then Taylor, then Buttler, then Ballance, then Bairstow, followed by Ali, Compton and finally Hales.

Pick the best five, Stokes and a keeper and then work out the batting order.
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Old 18th December 2015, 08:52   #119
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Van Zyl 15
Duminy 35
Piedt 0
Elgar 0
Looks like they were better of taking the week of like AB & faf. Atleast bavuma managed to get 57.
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Old 18th December 2015, 11:08   #120
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He opened in the ashes in England in 2013. Think his average as opener is about seven runs better than any other option used to partner Cook since Strauss retired. Carberry opened in Australia and was game but not quite good enough.
In that series he got on big score and that after he was dropped early in the innings. After that they moved him down.
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