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Old 27th December 2015, 07:51   #41
Chin Music
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Roo, I am in despair that these games have test status at all. As my avatar and user name suggests I was a big fan of West Indies quick bowlers back in the day and to see this makes me utterly sick.

Adam Voges has been a decent first class cricketer, but a good test batsman. Never in a million years. Windies are as bad, if not worse than what Bangladesh were a few years ago and what Zimbabwe have been. I've always evaluated players by deducting their records against those countries. You can now add West Indies to those two in taking "achievements" against those sides with a pinch of salt. So sad.
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Old 27th December 2015, 08:12   #42
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Voges averages nearly 90 overall, about 500 against WI, having been out once against them. It's a quirk, of course, but a quirk facilitated by a desperately poor shadow of a once great team.
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Old 27th December 2015, 08:16   #43
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West Indies would struggle in the second division of the county championship.
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Old 27th December 2015, 09:06   #44
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2 more tonnes today to Smith and Voges, both finished unbeaten after smith declared for 551, so thats 4 centuries in our first innings.

The first thing the windies need to do is Sack Ambrose as coach, he might have been a great cricketer but its clear hes a very poor coach who simply cannot get the boys into a mindset to play cricket, id go as far as to call him childish in his demeanor, in fact hes looking like a dope these days.
He is too much like one of the boys and hes smoked way too many bongs to be coaching a national side, they are clearly not responding to him.

Theres zero team spirit, first think id do is ban these clowns from wearing their gold bling and G-Shocks on the park, its not a fashion contest, these clowns need a new mindset because none of them give a ****, their body language is a disgrace, they lack heart, its as simple as that

The west indies are making a mockery of test match cricket, id take away their test status and make them earn it back, maybe they will find some spirit and heart then but i highly doubt it, its their too cool for school attitude from their youth thats destroyed test cricket for them, its safe to say west indian test cricket has lost all pride and heart, it irritates me to even watch them put in such a half hearted effort, its an insult to the game, to themselves, to the opposition and to the fans and crowd.

Sorry for the rant lads, but ive watched them field for two days, id go as far as to say that i suspect match fixing could be rife in their team, and watching their attitude out there i really dont know what to think, theres simply something not right imo
What's a disgrace to test cricket is that this is a West Indies A team and that many of their better players are playing in an Australian domestic competition instead of playing Australia. You add in the likes of Bravo, Russell, Simmons, Gayle, Narine etc and there's a competitive test team in there.

I'm not blaming solely Australia, the ECB and BCCI are even more culpable and the WICB aren't fit for purpose.
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Old 28th December 2015, 01:42   #45
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What's a disgrace to test cricket is that this is a West Indies A team and that many of their better players are playing in an Australian domestic competition instead of playing Australia. You add in the likes of Bravo, Russell, Simmons, Gayle, Narine etc and there's a competitive test team in there.

I'm not blaming solely Australia, the ECB and BCCI are even more culpable and the WICB aren't fit for purpose.

The problem is guys like Russell, Gayle and Bravo are saying that their backs cannot stand up to the rigour of five day cricket. If the $s weren't there that notion might be tested though. Gayle expects to return to the longer form next year.
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Old 28th December 2015, 02:50   #46
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Just watched the first session, and that's it hahaha
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Old 29th December 2015, 00:24   #47
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Loved the 2 no balls that got wickets both by Pattinson against Brathwaite. After all the celebrations by the Australians Brathwaite wanders back to the wicket.

Time for the usless Samuels to get some runs after dropping a simple catch.
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Old 29th December 2015, 06:25   #48
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At least they have shown more fight after the first two days.
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Old 30th December 2015, 13:52   #49
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
What's a disgrace to test cricket is that this is a West Indies A team and that many of their better players are playing in an Australian domestic competition instead of playing Australia. You add in the likes of Bravo, Russell, Simmons, Gayle, Narine etc and there's a competitive test team in there.

I'm not blaming solely Australia, the ECB and BCCI are even more culpable and the WICB aren't fit for purpose.
Totally agree mate.

After thinking about it more ive changed my opinion that they should be kicked out of test cricket, that wouldnt do anybody any good, its WI cricket that needs an over hall, and they mightnt be able to do it themselves, as youve said the talents there but atm they just use test cricket as a spring board to the IPL, big bash and the likes.
Its heart breaking to watch what WI test cricket has turned into, but it was good to see a bit of a fight back in this test.
Back in the glory years of WI cricket it was an us versus them mentality, much of their pride on the park was actually born from racism from many of the countries they played in prior years, i watched a great doco on west indies cricket back then and many of the past legends said they had a huge point to prove as a group of men and wouldnt be copping **** from anybody, they played like that too, they played with a real purpose and with a huge amount of heart and it was ALL about pride.

The west indies youngsters today are a different breed, its a different world, i dont know what the answer is but the one thing thats certain is they need a total clean out of WI cricket and a restructure.

cheers
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Old 30th December 2015, 14:12   #50
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Totally agree mate.

After thinking about it more ive changed my opinion that they should be kicked out of test cricket, that wouldnt do anybody any good, its WI cricket that needs an over hall, and they mightnt be able to do it themselves, as youve said the talents there but atm they just use test cricket as a spring board to the IPL, big bash and the likes.
Its heart breaking to watch what WI test cricket has turned into, but it was good to see a bit of a fight back in this test.
Back in the glory years of WI cricket it was an us versus them mentality, much of their pride on the park was actually born from racism from many of the countries they played in prior years, i watched a great doco on west indies cricket back then and many of the past legends said they had a huge point to prove as a group of men and wouldnt be copping **** from anybody, they played like that too, they played with a real purpose and with a huge amount of heart and it was ALL about pride.

The west indies youngsters today are a different breed, its a different world, i dont know what the answer is but the one thing thats certain is they need a total clean out of WI cricket and a restructure.

cheers
Fire in Babylon?

I don't think there's any one simple fix, but it's about getting a number of factors right. From schedules, to pitches, to good leadership and having role models, to fixing the domestic competition. And I don't think they are overnight fixes (the India tour was called off after payments were restructured so that players in the domestic game get more and cricket is seen as a viable career - that's a good thing but will take time to come good, the trouble is the WI players then didn't get enough).

I don't think there's anyone who wouldn't want to see a resurgent West Indies. Let's hope they are on route because cricket is so much better with a strong West Indies.
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Old 30th December 2015, 16:50   #51
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While of course strength and weakness in sides are cyclical, it's a huge concern if one of test cricket's giants is looking as poor as WI sadly does at the moment. The world game relies on competitive series and if they aren't forthcoming, the support for and interest in test cricket erodes. At the moment Australia, England, Pakistan and India are all strong propositions at home, dubious to terrible away (against decent opposition). SA, having been exceptionally good for years is probably on the decline. At least NZ has a decent side, albeit one which disappointed in Australia. I worry about Sri Lanka but there are at least some good players there. Bangladesh just may break through in tests, after really showing some merit in ODIs.
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Old 30th December 2015, 18:48   #52
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Totally agree mate.

After thinking about it more ive changed my opinion that they should be kicked out of test cricket, that wouldnt do anybody any good, its WI cricket that needs an over hall, and they mightnt be able to do it themselves, as youve said the talents there but atm they just use test cricket as a spring board to the IPL, big bash and the likes.
Its heart breaking to watch what WI test cricket has turned into, but it was good to see a bit of a fight back in this test.
Back in the glory years of WI cricket it was an us versus them mentality, much of their pride on the park was actually born from racism from many of the countries they played in prior years, i watched a great doco on west indies cricket back then and many of the past legends said they had a huge point to prove as a group of men and wouldnt be copping **** from anybody, they played like that too, they played with a real purpose and with a huge amount of heart and it was ALL about pride.

The west indies youngsters today are a different breed, its a different world, i dont know what the answer is but the one thing thats certain is they need a total clean out of WI cricket and a restructure.

cheers
It would help if the Big Bash didn't overlap with a touring test team. WI would have had a very different team otherwise.
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Old 31st December 2015, 16:13   #53
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It would help if the Big Bash didn't overlap with a touring test team. WI would have had a very different team otherwise.
It would help if my neighbour didnt drink beer, id probably drink less but at the end of the day im 100% responsible, the WI need to take ownership, and its not the big bash's fault if these guys dont have pride in playing for their country, you dont see our test players playing in the big bash.
The blame lies fully with WI cricket and the WI players, they need to own it before they can move forward imo
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Old 31st December 2015, 16:17   #54
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Roo, I am in despair that these games have test status at all. As my avatar and user name suggests I was a big fan of West Indies quick bowlers back in the day and to see this makes me utterly sick.

Adam Voges has been a decent first class cricketer, but a good test batsman. Never in a million years. Windies are as bad, if not worse than what Bangladesh were a few years ago and what Zimbabwe have been. I've always evaluated players by deducting their records against those countries. You can now add West Indies to those two in taking "achievements" against those sides with a pinch of salt. So sad.
Chin its heartbreaking to watch mate, one thing the windies need to do is get professional with their cricket, from grounds, grassroots, players, management, its a dead set **** fight over there and i have little faith they can do it themselves, not sure what the answer is,
cheers
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Old 1st January 2016, 09:09   #55
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this article seems relevant - certainly helps to explain part of the problem

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australi...ry/957013.html
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Old 1st January 2016, 09:37   #56
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The thing I don't understand about articles like that one is that they seem to come at this problem as if it's a relatively new thing. The West Indies have been on the slide for 20 years. The last great test player they produced was Shiv, who debuted in the early 90s. Gayle and Bravo always flattered to deceive. They've been suffering hammerings away from home since the late 90s but have remained at least marginally competitive at home, due in general to the uncompetitive nature of the test wickets in the Caribbean these days. The problems predate t20 leagues and the ICC carve up, but have been exacerbated by them. They never got the best out of the likes of Sarwan or Fidel, both who now are or have been happy in county cricket over internationals.

Kick them out of test cricket and tell them to focus on t20s.
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Old 1st January 2016, 12:01   #57
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Agreed. I think the premise of the article has some merit when you consider countries like Pakistan and Sri Lanka. They produce no less raw talent than a country like say India but due to their boards' financial positions suffer when it comes to salaries, facilities and exposure to overseas conditions. In their case you can fairly argue it isn't a level playing field.

But West Indies' problems are far too deep rooted to be explained by salary differentials. Without being any sort of expert on their problems whatsoever, it does seem the lack of a common goal (unlike in the past as mentioned) tying the various countries comprising the WI is at the heart of the problem. If they were working as one, the other issues - pitches, funding, player motivation etc. could probably be addressed.

And the lack of a common goal is not a criticism. If the four subcontinental teams comprised one Test side then their performances would probably be just as flawed.
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Old 1st January 2016, 15:35   #58
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That it isn't a level playing field is a given. The salaries of test players are just an indicator of the lack of resources, comparatively, in the rest of the structures that support a successful test outfit. Most important would be the first-class cricket environment that is producing the pool of candidate players.

Mind you, you could say the same thing about Premier League football and Leicester City are giving Manchester City and Manchester United some pretty good competition this season.
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Old 1st January 2016, 16:50   #59
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I would give Miguel Cummins the chance in the final Test. Roach has lost it. Of course, WI's selectors seem to have something against him.
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Old 2nd January 2016, 08:13   #60
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This looks to be an anti-climax but we had 75+ K fans at the 'G to watch the BBL tonight.
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