Cricket 24/7  

Welcome to the Cricket 24/7.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. There are also more forums available to members, such as the Lounge - where members chat about just about anything under the sun except cricket!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   Cricket 24/7 > Cricket Discussion Forums > Ex-International Player Forum
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Casino Articles Terms of Use Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17th July 2007, 00:29   #1
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,901
The Official Ian Bell Thread

Discussion of Ian Bell crops up in lost of threads but the only ones devoted to him so far have been rather negative (Is his ODI career over? and Psyduck's take). With the India test series coming up I thought it was about time he had a proper thread of his own. I can't imagine why I've not started one before.

The coming series is an important one for Bell. He has now played tests v 5 countries. Against Pakistan he has performed outstandingly well at home and abroad. He has played creditably against West Indies, and obviously he got all those infamous runs v. Bangladesh. After a very disappointing Ashes series in 2005 he lifted his performance against the Aussies in the winter, although he is yet to score an Ashes century. However, his worst record is against India, and this test series gives him the opportunity to put that right.

Australia Mtch 10 runs 502 hs 87 ave 25.1 100s 0 50s 6
B'desh 2 227 162* - 1 1
India 3 131 57 21.83 0 1
Pakistan 7 688 119 68.8 4 2
W Indies 5 297 109* 49.5 1 2

Overall 27 1845 162* 43.92 6 12

(The Australian ave is still pretty poor but it is pulled back by the 17.1 from 2005)

After the Ashes 05 he was nearly dropped by Duncan Fletcher but injuries to others gave him another chance and he seized the opportunity, being leading England run scorer and topping the averages. Unfortunately in the following series in India Bell took a step backwards, with just one half century and an average under 22. After this he really was dropped and missed the Sri Lanka series in England. However, once again he got back into the team for the Pakistan series with the injury to Flintoff, and has retained his place ever since. These days when we discuss who should be dropped when Flintoff comes back into the team the focus has moved on to Strauss.

But Bell had better not get too comfortable. As I said, he has something to prove against the Indians and I am looking forward to seeing him come out on top this time.

Last edited by Michelle Fivefer : 17th July 2007 at 00:38.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 00:47   #2
cabinboy
Posting God
 
cabinboy's Avatar
Do Gooder
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,096
Well, I thought there already were a number of Belly threads, but hey why not another one.

Can't see his position being under threat until next summer to be honest. The only batsman who's up against it at the moment is Strauss who could get jettisoned for Flintoff in Sri Lanka. Apart from that, it's plain sailing all the way for both Bell & Cook.
cabinboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 00:48   #3
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,277
I well remember the dreadful death rattle as Kumble bowled him trying to cut the googly for 38 in one of only two remotely useful innings in India. I suspect he's a rather better player now and I'd be surprised if he fails to demonstrate as much.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 00:50   #4
Joe Diddly
Posting God
 
Joe Diddly's Avatar
Mark Nicholas' Lawyer's Pall Bearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW17
Team(s): Northants
Posts: 13,522
He's doing pretty well at the test level, has played some crucial innings but the best is yet to come I feel.

Could do with realising his potential in ODIs though, but that applies to many of our players.
Joe Diddly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 00:52   #5
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinboy View Post
Well, I thought there already were a number of Belly threads, but hey why not another one.

Can't see his position being under threat until next summer to be honest. The only batsman who's up against it at the moment is Strauss who could get jettisoned for Flintoff in Sri Lanka. Apart from that, it's plain sailing all the way for both Bell & Cook.
There haven't been any proper permanent threads like we have for Cook and Anderson et al. Only threads started with the intention of telling us how useless Bell is. Or other threads in which Bell comes under discussion. So I hope you will forgive me for starting this one.

I do get worried though when people say it's plain sailing. Until you're up there with the best in the world you're only as good as your last match.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 00:59   #6
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,277
The sailing plainly isn't plain but Bell isn't first in line for the drop at present.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 07:19   #7
beefy
World Class
 
beefy's Avatar
Bulldog spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London Town
Team(s): England & Arsenal
Posts: 7,352
He is a mighty fine player. Since the disappointing tour of India he did magnificently v Pakistan and did well enough in Australia for a young player on his first Australian tour. He also did well against the West Indies last month, averaging 45? He seems to like the move down to no6 and has done well playing there. I really hope he will show his class v India on home pitches and then cement his place for years to come.
Collingwood is in a similar position imo, both were fighting for one spot last year, then both hit great form in Pakistan, then both levelled out to be very good players. However as Bell struggled in India, Collingwood also went through a very rough patch in the mid-late Ashes tour/ODI's, was his honeymoon period coming to an end?
I think both have shown their class, and despite the odd rough patch Bell in particular has time on his side, and plenty of natural talent to be among the worlds better batsmen for the extended future.
It has also helped England immensely having a lad who averages in the 40's coming to the crease from the middle-middle/lower order.

2 centuries during the India series please Mr Bell.
__________________
ENGLAND; Ashes holders, World Champions and the Number One cricket team in World Cricket.
beefy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 13:08   #8
Psyduck
Posting God
 
Psyduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester
Team(s): England, Lancashire, Man Utd
Posts: 15,605
Where do you think Bell should bat in the test team Michelle?
Psyduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 13:29   #9
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyduck View Post
Where do you think Bell should bat in the test team Michelle?
He wants to bat at 3 and should bat at 3 but is prevented because that is also Vaughan's desired position. He's doing fine at 6 though and I am happy with that for the time being. It's a good place to get unbeaten centuries.

He has played 18 innings as a no. 3 bat and his average is only 35.22 and no hundreds in that position. Ten of those innings were in the Ashes last winter, rather a stern test after doing so well at 6 v. Pakistan last summer. But hopefully he will move up the order eventually and consolidate his claim.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 13:30   #10
cabinboy
Posting God
 
cabinboy's Avatar
Do Gooder
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,096
Bell's performing well at number six, but I think to be a top batsman, you shouldn't be batting below five. Nor will he have that option if Flintoff gets back into team.
cabinboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 14:00   #11
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinboy View Post
Bell's performing well at number six, but I think to be a top batsman, you shouldn't be batting below five. Nor will he have that option if Flintoff gets back into team.
That is one caveat about Bell batting at six. It creates an assumption among some people that he is therefore not a top batsman. The fact that he only came into that position in the first place as a short-term replacement for the injured Flintoff and was expected to be dropped altogether thereafter helped foster this assumption.

But when Flintoff does return to the test side, he shouldn't be the one to be dropped given Strauss's current form. We'll have to see what happens during the India series of course. But if Strauss is dropped, Vaughan might move up to open and Bell move up to 3.

I agree that Flintoff should now bat below Prior.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 14:08   #12
Joe Diddly
Posting God
 
Joe Diddly's Avatar
Mark Nicholas' Lawyer's Pall Bearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW17
Team(s): Northants
Posts: 13,522
If you are scoring centuries you are a good batsman wherever you bat! Bell batting at three has currently not really worked, but hasn't he mainly done it against Australia?
Joe Diddly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 14:10   #13
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Right Reverend Joe Diddly View Post
If you are scoring centuries you are a good batsman wherever you bat! Bell batting at three has currently not really worked, but hasn't he mainly done it against Australia?
See post #10 above. He batted at 3 in the winter series but at 4 in the Ashes 05.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 15:06   #14
cabinboy
Posting God
 
cabinboy's Avatar
Do Gooder
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
That is one caveat about Bell batting at six. It creates an assumption among some people that he is therefore not a top batsman. The fact that he only came into that position in the first place as a short-term replacement for the injured Flintoff and was expected to be dropped altogether thereafter helped foster this assumption.

But when Flintoff does return to the test side, he shouldn't be the one to be dropped given Strauss's current form. We'll have to see what happens during the India series of course. But if Strauss is dropped, Vaughan might move up to open and Bell move up to 3.

I agree that Flintoff should now bat below Prior.
That's why Bell needs to get himself up the order, if only to prove the doubters wrong. Otherwise, there is the risk that when a selector is picking his batting line-up, they don't read beyond the 5th batter.

I agree that Strauss is currently the player most at risk, though Vaughan's position isn't as cemented as much as when he talked it up in April-May. He's already lost the battle to keep his one day place and Moores et al don't seem entrenched in sentiment and past glories.

Regarding Flintoff & Prior, Ive no strong feelings about which bats at six and which bats at seven. Prior's the better batsman, but both players should be pretty interchangable.
cabinboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 15:21   #15
Joe Diddly
Posting God
 
Joe Diddly's Avatar
Mark Nicholas' Lawyer's Pall Bearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW17
Team(s): Northants
Posts: 13,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
See post #10 above. He batted at 3 in the winter series but at 4 in the Ashes 05.
So yes, in a roundabout type of way. He has batted at 3 nine times, 5 against Australia and twice each against India and Pakistan.
Joe Diddly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 16:42   #16
Aidan11
Harmisonesque
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere cold and wet
Posts: 39,432
Does this make all the other Ian Bell threads "unofficial"?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northantsfanone View Post
Speaking to Geoff Cook today they may released Mark Wood from Durham. He rates him but the kid has had an operation and maybe one too many bowlers on the books type deal.
Aidan11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 17:11   #17
CoE
County Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shrewsbury
Team(s): England!
Posts: 696
Ian Bell should definitely bat at 6. He has a fantastic record there and it gives the lower middle order serious weight. I am pretty sure that it is best for the team with him at 6.
CoE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 17:45   #18
collingwood5
World Class
 
collingwood5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne
Team(s): England, Victoria, Collingwood
Posts: 6,361
He is a fine batsman when at no6, but for the good of the country he should stay away from the top order
__________________
Paul Collingwood- Our Cricketing God
Englands first and only World Champion Captain!!!!!!!
There has never been a better English limited overs player
collingwood5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 18:54   #19
stevieh
World Class
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Team(s): England, Kent, Canada
Posts: 6,711
Thought I'd add this information re Bell's fortunes with the LG Test Batting Rankings in 2007:

Successive ratings:
671 679 658 665 648
Successive position in the rankings:
16 14 19 19 21
Successive position within the England batsmen rankings:
4 3 4 4 4 4

Last edited by stevieh : 17th July 2007 at 18:55. Reason: Format for easier reading
stevieh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th July 2007, 21:34   #20
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan11 View Post
Does this make all the other Ian Bell threads "unofficial"?
As far as I'm aware there haven't been many other Bell threads, Aidan. I think I would have noticed them. The only two recent ones were about his place in the ODI side and one started by Psyduck with his view of his shortcomings as an England player.

As for the official bit - that is partly because Ian Bell's name is too short to stand alone as a thread title, so I used a bit of licence. And of course that does mean that all other Bell threads will indeed by unofficial.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:20.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Cricket247.org