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Old 10th October 2008, 20:35   #181
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Originally Posted by Sussex by the sea View Post
Of the seamers only Harris and Riazuddin have any first team experience. The batting looks very strong (Cobb, Taylor, Northeast, Redfern and Mickleburgh). The spin department with Dawson and Borthwick looks strong. The keeping department with Poynton and Wheater looks good too. Buck, Burke, Sheikh, Stokes and Wood are the only players without 1XI experience. Disappointed not to see any Sussex players named though.
Or Yorkshire players. Hopefully Azeem Rafiq hasn't been damaged too badly in the eyes of England after the registration debacle
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Old 10th October 2008, 23:14   #182
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What I thought was a bit sad was that the squad was announced before the players were told they were in it! Doesn't strike me as very professional.
Wasn't that one of the reasons Graveney was belatedly sacked?
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Old 10th October 2008, 23:25   #183
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Originally Posted by vaughan's #1 fan View Post
What I thought was a bit sad was that the squad was announced before the players were told they were in it! Doesn't strike me as very professional.
Didn't that used to be the normal way? Go into Ceefax and see if your name was there?
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Old 11th October 2008, 01:23   #184
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The England and Wales Cricket Board have announced the following 15 players have been selected for the England Under-19 squad to tour South Africa in January and February 2009

Scott Borthwick - Durham
Nathan Buck - Leicestershire
Joshua Cobb - Leicestershire
Liam Dawson - Hampshire
James Harris - Glamorgan
Jaik Mickleburgh - Essex
Sam Northeast - Kent
Thomas Poynton - Derbyshire
Daniel Redfern - Derbyshire
Hamza Riazuddin - Hampshire
Atif Sheikh - Derbyshire
Ben Stokes - Durham
James Taylor - Leicestershire
Adam Wheater - Essex
Chris Woods - Hampshire

James Burke of Somerset will also join the tour as fast bowling back-up on a development scholarship funded by the fast bowling programme
Leicestershire and derbyshire making up over a third of that squad, good going.
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Old 11th October 2008, 01:38   #185
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Leicestershire and derbyshire making up over a third of that squad, good going.
You sort of raise any interesting point there maty. Look how many of those players will be plying their trade in division two next season (if selected)?

Scott Borthwick - Durham
Nathan Buck - Leicestershire
Joshua Cobb - Leicestershire

Liam Dawson - Hampshire
James Harris - Glamorgan
Jaik Mickleburgh - Essex
Sam Northeast - Kent
Thomas Poynton - Derbyshire
Daniel Redfern - Derbyshire

Hamza Riazuddin - Hampshire
Atif Sheikh - Derbyshire
Ben Stokes - Durham
James Taylor - Leicestershire
Adam Wheater - Essex

Chris Woods - Hampshire

Maybe it is small county bias (but no Gloucestershire?) but there isn't a traditional test venue team amongst them. No Yorks, no Lancs, no Surrey, no Middlesex, no Notts. Atherton was roundly criticised by some for his piece in the Telegraph a few weeks back bemoaning what the big 4 were doing for the future of English cricket. His piece concentrated more on the lack of players currently in the England team, but looking at this squad you've got to wonder when the next crop of players from the traditional cricketing heartlands will come.
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Old 11th October 2008, 01:47   #186
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
You sort of raise any interesting point there maty. Look how many of those players will be plying their trade in division two next season (if selected)?

Scott Borthwick - Durham
Nathan Buck - Leicestershire
Joshua Cobb - Leicestershire

Liam Dawson - Hampshire
James Harris - Glamorgan
Jaik Mickleburgh - Essex
Sam Northeast - Kent
Thomas Poynton - Derbyshire
Daniel Redfern - Derbyshire

Hamza Riazuddin - Hampshire
Atif Sheikh - Derbyshire
Ben Stokes - Durham
James Taylor - Leicestershire
Adam Wheater - Essex

Chris Woods - Hampshire

Maybe it is small county bias (but no Gloucestershire?) but there isn't a traditional test venue team amongst them. No Yorks, no Lancs, no Surrey, no Middlesex, no Notts. Atherton was roundly criticised by some for his piece in the Telegraph a few weeks back bemoaning what the big 4 were doing for the future of English cricket. His piece concentrated more on the lack of players currently in the England team, but looking at this squad you've got to wonder when the next crop of players from the traditional cricketing heartlands will come.
I don't know if the players are still eligible but Notts had Hales, Fletcher and (the now departed) Saxelby in the U19s this season just gone.

Presumably you named all the traditional test match ground counties except Warwickshire to get a rise out of Kim?
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Old 11th October 2008, 01:50   #187
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I don't know if the players are still eligible but Notts had Hales, Fletcher and (the now departed) Saxelby in the U19s this season just gone.

Presumably you named all the traditional test match ground counties except Warwickshire to get a rise out of Kim?
Oops
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Old 11th October 2008, 11:37   #188
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Originally Posted by shakattak View Post
I don't know if the players are still eligible but Notts had Hales, Fletcher and (the now departed) Saxelby in the U19s this season just gone.

Presumably you named all the traditional test match ground counties except Warwickshire to get a rise out of Kim?
On the Derbyshire site it says they got Atif Sheikh from 'Nottinghamshire cricket'

Sheikh is the only one I've never heard of.
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Old 11th October 2008, 11:41   #189
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Sheikh is a suprising one, he hasn't set the world alight in the seconds but has been given his first contract this year at 17 so there must be talent there.
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Old 11th October 2008, 12:06   #190
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It doesnt get much better for the "big boys" one level down:

http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/ecb-schola...302782,EN.html

One interesting name is Ateeq Javid who Dougie Brown really rates and looked very good when I saw him get a 50 this year for our under 19s. He's only 16 - and has just been given a pro contract. Second youngest to get one in Warwicks history.
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Old 11th October 2008, 12:28   #191
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Ah, David Payne and Jack Taylor are in that provisional squad.

Never heard of them however.
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Old 11th October 2008, 14:29   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Wasn't that one of the reasons Graveney was belatedly sacked?
That could explain it - Grav was on the selection panel!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
Didn't that used to be the normal way? Go into Ceefax and see if your name was there?
Ah, back to the good old days...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim View Post
It doesnt get much better for the "big boys" one level down:

http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/ecb-schola...302782,EN.html

One interesting name is Ateeq Javid who Dougie Brown really rates and looked very good when I saw him get a 50 this year for our under 19s. He's only 16 - and has just been given a pro contract. Second youngest to get one in Warwicks history.
Three Hampshire players in this squad too - Bates & Briggs have been part of the England performance set up for a while now, and James Vince has had some great performances in the Seconds towards the end of the season.
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Old 11th October 2008, 14:42   #193
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Of the seamers only Harris and Riazuddin have any first team experience. The batting looks very strong (Cobb, Taylor, Northeast, Redfern and Mickleburgh). The spin department with Dawson and Borthwick looks strong. The keeping department with Poynton and Wheater looks good too. Buck, Burke, Sheikh, Stokes and Wood are the only players without 1XI experience. Disappointed not to see any Sussex players named though.
I think Brown and Beer are both 20 now aren't they, so they wouldn't qualify any more. Good to see two more in the under 18s though. Anyone know what the ECB scholarship programme actually is?
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Old 11th October 2008, 15:07   #194
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Joseph Buttler is in there as well and his name rings a bell. A James Buttler played at my local club in Somerset, but I think that I can remember hearing the name "Jos Buttler" as well (or as I thought, Josh Butler). Still, it is probably my mind playing tricks and mixing up two players names.
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Old 11th October 2008, 18:38   #195
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No, you're right: he is known as Jos. He's a batsman/keeper who's been reasonably successful for the 2s this year (largely as a specialist batsman). I believe he plays for Glastonbury.
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Old 11th October 2008, 21:40   #196
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Players who have played in England Under-19s in the last ten years (1998-2007) and the ones who have gone on to play Tests in bold.
(115 players - 14 caps)

MGough, Flanagan, Carberry, Maunders, RDawson, Bulbeck, Tucker, Logan, Bridge, Haywood, Tucker, Whiley, Symington, Napier, Foster, Liptrot, Hunter, Key, Shah, Peters, Swann, Franks, Laraman, Schofield, Grove, Pratt, Peng, Bell, Kadeer Ali, I Pattinson, Dalrymple, Trego, Ali, Gazzard, Murtagh, Panesar, Wallace, Harrison, Bishop, JKH Adams, Tremlett, Ferley, Hogg, McGarry, Sadler, Muchall, Sayers, Shafayat, Prior, Tredwell, Anderson, Pope, Compton, Wagg, Bresnan, Pettini, Benning, Plunkett, Malik, SPatel, Gale, Edwards, Hodd, Bopara, Pearson, LWright, Thornicroft, Broadbent, Stiff, Lawson, Parsons, Cook, Hildreth, Turner, Denly, New, Cusden, SDavies, Munday, MAli, TSmith, Griffiths, O'Shea, Gifford, BHarmison, Stokes, Miller, Mullaney, Simpson, Chopra, Latouf, Thompson, James, Broad, Footitt, Godleman, Hamilton-Brown, Lyth, Rashid, Nelson, Dixey, GWhite, Finn, Wood, Needham, Evans, Wakely, Wright, Westley, Brown, Harris, Dawson, Woakes, Meaker,
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Old 11th October 2008, 23:18   #197
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Players who have played in England Under-19s in the last ten years (1998-2007) and the ones who have gone on to play Tests in bold.
(115 players - 14 caps)

MGough, Flanagan, Carberry, Maunders, RDawson, Bulbeck, Tucker, Logan, Bridge, Haywood, Tucker, Whiley, Symington, Napier, Foster, Liptrot, Hunter, Key, Shah, Peters, Swann, Franks, Laraman, Schofield, Grove, Pratt, Peng, Bell, Kadeer Ali, I Pattinson, Dalrymple, Trego, Ali, Gazzard, Murtagh, Panesar, Wallace, Harrison, Bishop, JKH Adams, Tremlett, Ferley, Hogg, McGarry, Sadler, Muchall, Sayers, Shafayat, Prior, Tredwell, Anderson, Pope, Compton, Wagg, Bresnan, Pettini, Benning, Plunkett, Malik, SPatel, Gale, Edwards, Hodd, Bopara, Pearson, LWright, Thornicroft, Broadbent, Stiff, Lawson, Parsons, Cook, Hildreth, Turner, Denly, New, Cusden, SDavies, Munday, MAli, TSmith, Griffiths, O'Shea, Gifford, BHarmison, Stokes, Miller, Mullaney, Simpson, Chopra, Latouf, Thompson, James, Broad, Footitt, Godleman, Hamilton-Brown, Lyth, Rashid, Nelson, Dixey, GWhite, Finn, Wood, Needham, Evans, Wakely, Wright, Westley, Brown, Harris, Dawson, Woakes, Meaker,


Really interesting list there. Works out as about a one in eight chance of playing test cricket if you're selected as an U-19 player.

Of course there are a couple who may still go on to play test cricket (Rashid, Bresnan, Patel, Chopra, Hildreth) and several who have played ODI for England (Wright, Bresnan, Dalrymple). Would be very interesting to see how this compares with an equivalent Australian list......
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Old 12th October 2008, 00:11   #198
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Really interesting list there. Works out as about a one in eight chance of playing test cricket if you're selected as an U-19 player.

Of course there are a couple who may still go on to play test cricket (Rashid, Bresnan, Patel, Chopra, Hildreth) and several who have played ODI for England (Wright, Bresnan, Dalrymple). Would be very interesting to see how this compares with an equivalent Australian list......
1 in 8 is a really bad ratio if you are allowed to choose from the most promising cricketers in the country, although as you hint, I think the methodology is slightly flawed as it is pretty early to be writing off the u19s of the last few years as not being test players.

Maybe a more instructive way to look at it, is to see how many of the current squad came through the u19s.

Kevin Pietersen
Alastair Cook - YES
Andrew Strauss
Ian Bell - YES
Paul Collingwood
Andrew Flintoff - YES
Tim Ambrose (wk)
Matt Prior (wk) - YES
Stuart Broad - YES
Steve Harmison - YES
James Anderson - YES
Monty Panesar - YES
Ryan Sidebottom - YES
Owais Shah - YES
Graeme Swann - YES

So all but 4 of the current squad have come through the u19s. What is particularly interesting though is the 4 who haven't: one of them is our only world class player and the other 3 aren't test class and were lucky to have made the tour. Mind you, KP wasn't eligible.



If we then look at the Performance Squad, its far less conclusive:

Tim Bresnan YES
Mark Davies
Steven Davies - YES
Joe Denly- YES
Robbie Joseph
Robert Key- YES
Amjad Khan
Sajid Mahmood
Dawid Malan
Eoin Morgan
Stephen Moore
Liam Plunkett - YES
Adil Rashid - YES
Ollie Rayner
Jonathan Trott


Like KP a lot of these wouldn't have been eligible as they weren't English when they were 19, eg Trott, Moore, Morgan, Malan, Joseph, Khan.
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Old 12th October 2008, 00:40   #199
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The Australians have a Commonwealth Bank Under-19 internal series and some years have not played an Under-19 team against other countries so there are less players here. Only 1999, 2001 and 2003. 57 players - 5 caps

Thornley, Davies, Miller, Anderson, Klinger, Kremerskothen, Oliver, Hopes, Clinegleffer, Busbridge, Tubb, Burke, North, French, Johnston, Birt, Cosgrove, Dixon, Harris, Williams, Rowe, Clarke, Hauritz, Voges, McKenzie, Byrom, Johnson, Zammit, Rofe, Birt, Cosgrove, Dixon, Lonergan, Marsh, Geeves, Borgas, O'Brien, Hartley, Welsford, Casson, James, Simpson, White, LRDavis, Harrison, Hunt, Doropolous, Bright, Crosthwaite, Bird, Kelly, Gale, Skewes, Bird, LMDavis, Kelly, Sullivan, Nevill
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Old 12th October 2008, 01:22   #200
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I have gone back another two years so everyone presently playing in the Test side has been included. Harmison was picked for the Under-19s but he left Pakistan without playing because he was homesick.
140 players - 23 caps

1996/7
Haywood, Flintoff, Morris, Batty, Read, Tudor, Cosker, Powell, Sidebottom, Wilton, Wood, Gee, Sales, Nash, Afzaal, Campbell, Hutchison, Nash, Roberts, ESmith, BHollioake, Ormond, Hoggard, Wagh, Graham
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