Cricket 24/7  

Welcome to the Cricket 24/7.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. There are also more forums available to members, such as the Lounge - where members chat about just about anything under the sun except cricket!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   Cricket 24/7 > Cricket Discussion Forums > England
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Casino Articles Terms of Use Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30th December 2007, 19:35   #61
sanskritsimon
Legendary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 9,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatslogger View Post
It's a statistical curio, which I think was largely what IGHOLS meant.
Oh. I thought that that's what I meant in the first place, and that IGHOLS / MNL agreed, but immediately added that I was disabled. Silly me!

I think Monty has had a bit more criticism than the other bowlers, possibly excepting Anderson.
sanskritsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 19:42   #62
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
Oh. I thought that that's what I meant in the first place, and that IGHOLS / MNL agreed, but immediately added that I was disabled. Silly me!
Well I expect you'll both be very pleased to find you were in agreement all along. I don't think autistic spectum disorder would exactly count as a disability and is indeed compatible with being a significantly highly functioning individual (politically correct psychiatry speak for clever). IGHOLS should know as he has that diagnosis himself, as he mentioned. So not only have you agreed with one another all along but you also now have the same label.

Quote:
I think Monty has had a bit more criticism than the other bowlers, possibly excepting Anderson.
Probably true. I think Hoggard and Harmison bowled well enough to be largely above much criticism, not that either was anywhere near perfect. Obliquearse had shocking figures but didn't, you know, empirically speaking, bowl as badly as they suggest? Perhaps harshly, people seemed to expect a lot from Panesar too, which I say is harsh because actually the tracks in Sri Lanka don't suit visiting spinners. Yep, Anderson has had both barrels but then, he didn't have a great game at Kandy and was a marginal selection in the first place. Arguably being a marginal selection should make the criticism less harsh because we should have expected less but it just doesn't seem to work like that, does it?
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 20:00   #63
Kim
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatslogger View Post
Well I expect you'll both be very pleased to find you were in agreement all along. I don't think autistic spectum disorder would exactly count as a disability and is indeed compatible with being a significantly highly functioning individual (politically correct psychiatry speak for clever). IGHOLS should know as he has that diagnosis himself, as he mentioned. So not only have you agreed with one another all along but you also now have the same label.



Probably true. I think Hoggard and Harmison bowled well enough to be largely above much criticism, not that either was anywhere near perfect. Obliquearse had shocking figures but didn't, you know, empirically speaking, bowl as badly as they suggest? Perhaps harshly, people seemed to expect a lot from Panesar too, which I say is harsh because actually the tracks in Sri Lanka don't suit visiting spinners. Yep, Anderson has had both barrels but then, he didn't have a great game at Kandy and was a marginal selection in the first place. Arguably being a marginal selection should make the criticism less harsh because we should have expected less but it just doesn't seem to work like that, does it?
Sri Lankan pitches suited Warne, Kaneiria and Giles in the last few years. If Monty got more critisism than others its because he deserved it. Behind all the comparisons to others, SS's maths, the expectations etc.. the fact is he simply didnt bowl well and never looked like being a factor in the series. As one paper today mentioned the Sri Lankans by the end knew he wasnt going to get them out and he knew it as well. Thats the bottom line.
Kim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 20:02   #64
Joe Diddly
Posting God
 
Joe Diddly's Avatar
Mark Nicholas' Lawyer's Pall Bearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW17
Team(s): Northants
Posts: 13,522
That was the same for most English bowlers and Sri Lankan batsmen by the end of the series, to be fair.
Joe Diddly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 20:04   #65
sanskritsimon
Legendary
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 9,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark nicholas' lawyer View Post
I'm allowed to make these jokes because I are one innit.
Sorry sorry I thought this was intended as a parody of me. Silly me! Must get out more.
sanskritsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2007, 20:06   #66
Kim
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Joe Diddly] View Post
That was the same for most English bowlers and Sri Lankan batsmen by the end of the series, to be fair.
Cant argue with that to be equally fair.
Kim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2007, 10:09   #67
Chin Music
Administrator
 
Chin Music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 23,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim View Post
Cant argue with that to be equally fair.
I didn't expect Monty to nail the Lankans by any means but he simply didn't bowl with any rythym or any consistent threat. Didn't bowl so bad in Kandy, but looked worringly inconsistent. Was little short of terrible in Colombo, two lengths and bowling darts and then just rank ordinary in Galle from what I saw and failed to put any pressure on the batsmen. A tour to forget in terms of figures but one to store in the memory bank in terms of thinking of a game plan (probably his weakest point right now). He needed to be bowling far more overs so that the quicks could operate in short bursts after the new ball went. That this never happened enough was testament to how Monty was out of sorts.
__________________
Quote:
"One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated" - Thomas More
Chin Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2008, 04:11   #68
Baron von Death
World Class
 
Baron von Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,305
There are many possible reasons for Monty's problems. But it does seem odd that his basic method - line, length, accuracy - that has appeared so sound previously, was so aray this time. Does Monty know what his game plan is at the moment? Does Vaughan? Does anyone know or care about what is the best way for him to develop as a consistent, attacking force, or will we see him reduced to being another typical English dart thrower in the near future?
Baron von Death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2008, 09:56   #69
Chin Music
Administrator
 
Chin Music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 23,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy New Death View Post
There are many possible reasons for Monty's problems. But it does seem odd that his basic method - line, length, accuracy - that has appeared so sound previously, was so aray this time. Does Monty know what his game plan is at the moment? Does Vaughan? Does anyone know or care about what is the best way for him to develop as a consistent, attacking force, or will we see him reduced to being another typical English dart thrower in the near future?
hopefully he can find some rythymn in India with the Lions and be bowling against what should be good players of spin. However in 3Hard's rather entertaining thesis on the Australia/India thread I came up with one of my own!
__________________
Quote:
"One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated" - Thomas More
Chin Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2008, 16:14   #70
sharky
Posting God
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Sussex
Team(s): Sussex, England
Posts: 10,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy New Death View Post
There are many possible reasons for Monty's problems. But it does seem odd that his basic method - line, length, accuracy - that has appeared so sound previously, was so aray this time. Does Monty know what his game plan is at the moment? Does Vaughan? Does anyone know or care about what is the best way for him to develop as a consistent, attacking force, or will we see him reduced to being another typical English dart thrower in the near future?
The pitches were incredibly slow, as Murali kept complaining about, which meant that Monty's natural pace and length generally sat up to be hit. Sangakarra and Jayawardene were brilliant against him as well and never let him settle. I don't think Monty should be worrying yet, I've felt that he'd strangely be more suited to English pitches than subcontinent ones. I would expect him to take a bagful in NZ and back home in the summer
__________________
She was like a candle in the wind...Unreliable
sharky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2008, 01:16   #71
drumkingSP
International Material
 
drumkingSP's Avatar
Thats what I'm Talkin' About!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portsmouth & Kent, UK
Team(s): Kent & England
Posts: 1,259
Send a message via MSN to drumkingSP Send a message via Skype™ to drumkingSP
MONTY is...well...MONTY
But you cant change a player like him-he's brilliant the way he is. He may have a couple of issues with the bat (but Murali knows that Monty can handle a shot or two!)

give the Montster time...
drumkingSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2008, 02:06   #72
Baron von Death
World Class
 
Baron von Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
The pitches were incredibly slow, as Murali kept complaining about, which meant that Monty's natural pace and length generally sat up to be hit. Sangakarra and Jayawardene were brilliant against him as well and never let him settle. I don't think Monty should be worrying yet, I've felt that he'd strangely be more suited to English pitches than subcontinent ones. I would expect him to take a bagful in NZ and back home in the summer
He does seem to get more out of English surfaces than most spinners. On a wider point though, I think the widespread preparation of intentionally dead surfaces as an aid to avoiding losing (especially the case in Asia) is damaging the game as a varied and entertaining spectacle.
Baron von Death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2008, 09:17   #73
Chin Music
Administrator
 
Chin Music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: la sala de opinion equivocada
Team(s): ****
Posts: 23,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy New Death View Post
He does seem to get more out of English surfaces than most spinners. On a wider point though, I think the widespread preparation of intentionally dead surfaces as an aid to avoiding losing (especially the case in Asia) is damaging the game as a varied and entertaining spectacle.
I said something similar about Vettori and Kiwi pitches, which are not dissimilar from over here. Also Murali and Warne hardly had poor records over here, which isn't only a reflection on poor batting against spin. I just think that the pitches over here tend to crumble quicker and aid finger spin in a way they don't often do overseas.
__________________
Quote:
"One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated" - Thomas More
Chin Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2008, 00:25   #74
1000yardstare
Posting Goddess
 
1000yardstare's Avatar
JA 793 Wagner 118 TCurran 7 SCurran 0 Cummins 101
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,196
Is this Panesar's competition or will it be Rashid?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...nd/7190361.stm

Once again we have a player who has played for another country and wants to play for England. I don't think it should happen.
1000yardstare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2008, 00:32   #75
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,815
Saqlain has got no chance whatever of being selected for England.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2008, 00:40   #76
1000yardstare
Posting Goddess
 
1000yardstare's Avatar
JA 793 Wagner 118 TCurran 7 SCurran 0 Cummins 101
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
Saqlain has got no chance whatever of being selected for England.
Well it depends on the new selectors. Do you think Adams would be in favour?
1000yardstare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2008, 01:12   #77
'ampshire
Established International
 
'ampshire's Avatar
Legend. FACT.
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Maidenhead/Sheffield
Team(s): Hampshire, Southampton FC and England
Age: 29
Posts: 4,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
Saqlain has got no chance whatever of being selected for England.
Indeed. And I don't believe for one second that he's 31...
'ampshire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2008, 01:31   #78
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 41,815
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ampshire View Post
Indeed. And I don't believe for one second that he's 31...
I must say I was a bit surprised at that. Especially if you look at recent photographs since he grew the long beard. But I have heard it said before about Pakistan players making debuts at incredibly young ages, that they are actually older than they say.
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2008, 01:34   #79
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 27,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ampshire View Post
Indeed. And I don't believe for one second that he's 31...
According to cricinfo (not necessarily my opinion)

Saqlain Mushtaq [Player Page] - RHB; OB
Born: 1976-12-29 (present age: 31y 18d)

Tests: Pakistan 1995/96 - 2003/04 (18y 253d - 27y 94d)
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2008, 11:30   #80
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,276
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
According to cricinfo (not necessarily my opinion)

Saqlain Mushtaq [Player Page] - RHB; OB
Born: 1976-12-29 (present age: 31y 18d)

Tests: Pakistan 1995/96 - 2003/04 (18y 253d - 27y 94d)
Well I suppose he may be a few months younger than I am but if so, he's done an even better job of thrashing his body into premature middle age than I have.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:23.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Cricket247.org