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Old 5th February 2008, 11:41   #121
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What disappointed me most in SL was that when obviously out of form he resorted to bowling quicker and didn't seem to have the mind to try and vary his flight/speed and seemed to lose even more rhythm by bowling darts.

Don't get me wrong I remain a Panesar fan but his biggest attributes are his ability to make the ball drift into the batsman whilst gaining enough turn and bounce from even relatively unhelpful surfaces to continue to trouble good players. For a finger spinner he does put good revs on the ball, so he shouldn't lose his best assets.
The pitches were so slow he had to try to bowl a bit quicker. I think he was at his best bowling over the wicket - he got more turn from the rough and troubled the bastmen more, but in that he gets tarnished in the same bracket as Giles as bowling defensively, when in fact it was probably the best way of him taking wickets. Sri Lanka is a graveyard for spinners except for Murali, although strangely Giles has decent success bowling over the wicket. He should get a hatful against this New Zealand team, provided they last beyond the new ball
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Old 5th February 2008, 11:48   #122
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The pitches were so slow he had to try to bowl a bit quicker. I think he was at his best bowling over the wicket - he got more turn from the rough and troubled the bastmen more, but in that he gets tarnished in the same bracket as Giles as bowling defensively, when in fact it was probably the best way of him taking wickets. Sri Lanka is a graveyard for spinners except for Murali, although strangely Giles has decent success bowling over the wicket. He should get a hatful against this New Zealand team, provided they last beyond the new ball
sure he shouldn't bowl too slowly but I don't think its unreasonable to say that he bowled too quickly and thus sacrificed his rythym and although it may have stopped the rot a little SL batsman simply won't be mug enough to take risks when he comes over the wicket (no LBW risk and therefore they don't have to play shots if not needed). It enabled him to gain more economy but that's prety much all.
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Old 5th February 2008, 21:59   #123
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Monty wants the best keeper so he can take more wickets but he doesn't contribute much with the bat so he's already part of the equation whereby a batting keeper is picked?
I'm afraid I'm non the wiser.
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Old 6th February 2008, 18:48   #124
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What disappointed me most in SL was that when obviously out of form he resorted to bowling quicker and didn't seem to have the mind to try and vary his flight/speed and seemed to lose even more rhythm by bowling darts.

Don't get me wrong I remain a Panesar fan but his biggest attributes are his ability to make the ball drift into the batsman whilst gaining enough turn and bounce from even relatively unhelpful surfaces to continue to trouble good players. For a finger spinner he does put good revs on the ball, so he shouldn't lose his best assets.



What does the figure 15.0 stand for?

I agree. I didn't see the games but he clearly didn't bowl well by all accounts. However, for bowlers that tend to rely on sharp turn and bounce, those sort of slow, low pitches are very unhelpful. Legspinners like Warne (who similarly rely on bounce and turn - as well as accuracy) have struggled in places like the WI and some Indian pitches which offer nothing to the attacking spinner.

The over the wicket option should be an occasional variation for any decent left arm spinner. It is usually the refuge of the inadequate and bowlers like Richard Illingworth and Ashley Giles who have adopted it as their modus operandi at Test level largely because too often they were unable to maintain control from around. The fact that Monty is very quickly moving to this method whenever England are under the slightest pressure (as with tufnell before him) is a bad sign and, I suspect, is happening under instruction from the captain. Note that no other international country has the same repeated pattern with it's spinners.
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Old 9th February 2008, 06:38   #125
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Andrew Crook writes about Monty.
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I can remember at times last year walking into the Indoor Centre early in the mornings to see Monty and David Capel, or another one of his mentors, chatting about the game of cricket and Monty spinning some down to a coach just to get his groove going.
How many mentors can a player have? More to the point, when does it become too many?
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Old 10th March 2008, 22:14   #126
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here goes (2)

I have absolutely had enough of this man's gormless bowling and apparent lack of a (cricketing) brain. There is no artistry or subtlety. There is no disguise or excitement. There is nothing I call great.
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Old 10th March 2008, 22:55   #127
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I have absolutely had enough of this man's gormless bowling and apparent lack of a (cricketing) brain. There is no artistry or subtlety. There is no disguise or excitement. There is nothing I call great.
But he's got a great beard.
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Old 10th March 2008, 23:21   #128
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I'm beginning to see that the turban, beard, high fives, dances and 'cute' butter-fingered fielding and utterly hopeless batting has started to wear off. About bloody time.
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Old 11th March 2008, 00:14   #129
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"He's got great personality" they all bleat. Uh, no. He leaps about like a moron and gives the most boring interviews I've ever heard. Absolutely devoid of any kind of spark. He's not even a machine, he's a production-line.
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Old 11th March 2008, 00:18   #130
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As I've been saying elsewhere, Monty's recent two series have been poor ones and his lack of batting and fielding is a concern. Still, there simply isn't a decent alternative.
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Old 11th March 2008, 00:20   #131
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"He's got great personality" they all bleat. Uh, no. He leaps about like a moron and gives the most boring interviews I've ever heard. Absolutely devoid of any kind of spark. He's not even a machine, he's a production-line.
Yeah well, if he continues to average in the low 30s that's fine by me, and ir should be with you. I mean, obviously in an ideal world we'd prefer to have Ashley Giles, no question, but Gilos gone for good, get over it.
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Old 11th March 2008, 00:27   #132
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Yeah well, if he continues to average in the low 30s that's fine by me, and ir should be with you. I mean, obviously in an ideal world we'd prefer to have Ashley Giles, no question
kill me now

His average, I'm sure, will rise whenever he doesn't get to bowl at West Indian tailenders.
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Old 11th March 2008, 00:28   #133
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I have absolutely had enough of this man's gormless bowling and apparent lack of a (cricketing) brain. There is no artistry or subtlety. There is no disguise or excitement. There is nothing I call great.
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I'm beginning to see that the turban, beard, high fives, dances and 'cute' butter-fingered fielding and utterly hopeless batting has started to wear off. About bloody time.
Ah, the inevitable backlash.

Nobody is calling Panesar great as far as I'm aware, but to write him off already is a bit extreme. He had a very poor series in Sri Lanka but did OK in this match. 4 wickets at 37.75 and an econ rate of 2.84 from 53 overs. Not fantastic but I see this as a starting point for Monty to gain maturity as a bowler. Ighols is right that he doesn't appear blessed with much originality or deep thinking, but he is bound to learn something over the next year or so.

As to his fielding and batting, Rosbif's criticism is a bit out-dated. He fields competently, if not brilliantly, had a nice caught-and-bowled, and as for batting, he faced 52 balls and was definitely not the worst in this match.

The novelty of the turban and beard is wearing off and quite right too; time for him to be seen as just a regular player in the England team and judge him on his results (85 wkts at 33.00 from 24 matches so far).

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Old 11th March 2008, 00:29   #134
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kill me now
That's Aidan's line.
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Old 11th March 2008, 00:32   #135
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kill me now

His average, I'm sure, will rise whenever he doesn't get to bowl at West Indian tailenders.
That will shall see, however there is at present no reason to drop Panesar. It's not is if he had a bad game, on the contrary, he was the only bowler to come out with any credit along with The Bottom.
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Old 11th March 2008, 00:44   #136
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fantasstic
Freud would have a day in the field, as they almost say. Is this truly your dominant criterion for a Test player?

It's not so much a backlash as a sentiment I've hitherto suppressed.
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Old 11th March 2008, 00:51   #137
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Freud would have a day in the field, as they almost say. Is this truly your dominant criterion for a Test player?
Only when it's Jimmy Anderson.
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Old 11th March 2008, 01:00   #138
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Now you're playing to the gallery.
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Old 11th March 2008, 02:10   #139
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Now you're playing to the gallery.
Yeah, it's normally you, me or Chin doing that. MF, step off our turf.

Can't say Monty's beard does it for me, anyway.
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Old 11th March 2008, 02:42   #140
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Ah, the inevitable backlash.

Nobody is calling Panesar great as far as I'm aware, but to write him off already is a bit extreme. He had a very poor series in Sri Lanka but did OK in this match. 4 wickets at 37.75 and an econ rate of 2.84 from 53 overs. Not fantastic but I see this as a starting point for Monty to gain maturity as a bowler. Ighols is right that he doesn't appear blessed with much originality or deep thinking, but he is bound to learn something over the next year or so.

As to his fielding and batting, Rosbif's criticism is a bit out-dated. He fields competently, if not brilliantly, had a nice caught-and-bowled, and as for batting, he faced 52 balls and was definitely not the worst in this match.

The novelty of the turban and beard is wearing off and quite right too; time for him to be seen as just a regular player in the England team and judge him on his results (85 wkts at 33.00 from 24 matches so far).
I fear you are again defending mediocrity. Actually his batting and fielding don't even reach mediocrity. Yes, he's improved, but he is a no.10 at best bat (ie useless) and still an easy single every time the ball is played to him. You don't have to hide competent fielders, and you certainly have to hide Monty.

His bowling shows promise, but remains mediocre. In fact finger spinners struggle to be more than mediocre as their averages invariably reveal.
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