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Old 29th April 2008, 11:52   #41
asita
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they cant put hoggard in for the lions! the man's taken enough slights on his honour as it is. cant see why they'd play cook either to be honest - carberry to open with key and both can compete with strauss for a shot at the not quite vacant openers slot.
looks like i was well off there then - hoggy's in for the lion's and strauss gets to put his feet up. it wont do hoggard any harm of course but i reckon strauss should have been made to compete a little more.
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Old 29th April 2008, 13:11   #42
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looks like i was well off there then - hoggy's in for the lion's and strauss gets to put his feet up. it wont do hoggard any harm of course but i reckon strauss should have been made to compete a little more.
Just a shame the England managment doesn't agree.
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Old 29th April 2008, 13:28   #43
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looks like i was well off there then - hoggy's in for the lion's and strauss gets to put his feet up. it wont do hoggard any harm of course but i reckon strauss should have been made to compete a little more.
Me too. It looks like Harmison is not likely to be picked for the squad for the 1st Test and Flintoff neither.

Strauss should have been in it and then they could decide between Shah, Strauss and Key but it seems only one or two players in the Lions are competing to get into the first XI rather than the squad which probably will only be 12 with un-named standbys, probably Swann, Prior, Shah/Key. On tour there were 5 fast bowlers. At home it will be only 4 with one being 12th man. Sidebottom, Broad, Hoggard/Tremlett/Anderson.

Hoggard, Tremlett, Onions and Kirby - only Hoggard and Tremlett are in competition.
Rashid and Swann - Rashid probably won't play
Prior - likely to be back up to Ambrose in Tests rather than Mustard
Wright has replaced Bresnan as the all rounder. At least Wright and Kirby are in the same team this time.
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Old 29th April 2008, 13:31   #44
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Me too. It looks like Harmison is not likely to be picked for the squad for the 1st Test and Flintoff neither.

Strauss should have been in it and then they could decide between Shah, Strauss and Key but it seems only one or two players in the Lions are competing to get into the first XI rather than the squad which probably will only be 12 with un-named standbys, probably Swann, Prior, Shah/Key. On tour there were 5 fast bowlers. At home it will be only 4 with one being 12th man. Sidebottom, Broad, Hoggard/Tremlett/Anderson.

Hoggard, Tremlett, Onions and Kirby - only Hoggard and Tremlett are in competition.
Rashid and Swann - Rashid probably won't play
Prior - likely to be back up to Ambrose in Tests rather than Mustard
Wright has replaced Bresnan as the all rounder. At least Wright and Kirby are in the same team this time.

I think Onions is right in there now. Ahead of Tremlett.
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Old 29th April 2008, 13:33   #45
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Is he any good?
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Old 29th April 2008, 13:37   #46
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Is he any good?
Ive only seen him live once - he was very good (and batted well which, as you above all know, is important). Ive heard hes getting quicker all the time and had a very good winter. Gutsy too.
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Old 29th April 2008, 14:03   #47
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Ive only seen him live once - he was very good (and batted well which, as you above all know, is important). Ive heard hes getting quicker all the time and had a very good winter. Gutsy too.
Ahead of Kirby?

Have been hearing good things about Kirby again this season. I think the balance of the bowling line-up is important, and with Sidebottom and Broad nailed on certainties, you are looking for someone to complement Sideshow's swing and Broad's accuracy and bounce. With Broad and Sideshow's batting, he'd only have to bat at no.10, which opens it up a bit, and I think Kirby's aggression and fire would make that a well balanced attack.

Obviously there are question marks over whether he could replicate that at test level, consistency etc, but I think I'd have Kirby as the leading candidate from the counties.
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Old 29th April 2008, 14:12   #48
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I'd agree. Kirby brings a weird mix of agression and maturity to the Lions squad. Although I have to say I've not seen Onions bowl. Given early season Rose Bowl conditions I think Swann will be the one to miss out as 12th man and all the quicks will play.
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Old 29th April 2008, 14:39   #49
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I think Onions is right in there now. Ahead of Tremlett.
I don't think so. In New Zealand it was likely that Tremlett was going to play ahead of Harmison but he got injured. Tremlett has also competed with Broad and was considered better in the nets before India. He then took 13 wickets at a better average than Sidebottom and Anderson.

Kirby and Onions haven't played Test cricket. How likely is it that either would make a debut? Hoggard was told they dropped him because they wanted pace. What has changed? Tremlett can bowl 88-90 and is 6'7.
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Old 29th April 2008, 16:08   #50
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I don't think so. In New Zealand it was likely that Tremlett was going to play ahead of Harmison but he got injured. Tremlett has also competed with Broad and was considered better in the nets before India. He then took 13 wickets at a better average than Sidebottom and Anderson.

Kirby and Onions haven't played Test cricket. How likely is it that either would make a debut? Hoggard was told they dropped him because they wanted pace. What has changed? Tremlett can bowl 88-90 and is 6'7.

Onions and Kirby both have pace - and aggression. As you say Tremlett got imjured - again. Id agree with a lot of what GB said over Kirby but his age might count against him. Big character though. His battle V Nick Knight in a one dayer at Edgbaston a couple of years ago was wonderfull theatre.

Re Hoggard, was he? I hadnt seen that. I thought it was because he was a little bit flat and out of form.
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Old 29th April 2008, 16:18   #51
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Onions and Kirby both have pace - and aggression. As you say Tremlett got imjured - again. Id agree with a lot of what GB said over Kirby but his age might count against him. Big character though. His battle V Nick Knight in a one dayer at Edgbaston a couple of years ago was wonderfull theatre.

Re Hoggard, was he? I hadnt seen that. I thought it was because he was a little bit flat and out of form.
Unless Kirby is slowing down, I don't think age will count against him. If anything his experience will be seen as an asset, in a 4 man attack already boosting the youth of Broad and Panesar.
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Old 29th April 2008, 16:21   #52
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I don't think so. In New Zealand it was likely that Tremlett was going to play ahead of Harmison but he got injured. Tremlett has also competed with Broad and was considered better in the nets before India. He then took 13 wickets at a better average than Sidebottom and Anderson.

Kirby and Onions haven't played Test cricket. How likely is it that either would make a debut? Hoggard was told they dropped him because they wanted pace. What has changed? Tremlett can bowl 88-90 and is 6'7.
can tremlett really get up to 90 then dude?
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Old 29th April 2008, 16:24   #53
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can tremlett really get up to 90 then dude?

He did according to the speed gun at the semi final against us last year
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Old 29th April 2008, 16:28   #54
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He did according to the speed gun at the semi final against us last year
interesting!
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Old 29th April 2008, 16:46   #55
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Bowling 90mph is one thing...bowling it somewhere on the playing strip is another.

I'd take an 80/81mph bowler who's continually threatening the batsmen’s stumps over a bowler who's more likely to endanger the spectators any day of the week.
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Old 29th April 2008, 16:59   #56
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Bowling 90mph is one thing...bowling it somewhere on the playing strip is another.

I'd take an 80/81mph bowler who's continually threatening the batsmenís stumps over a bowler who's more likely to endanger the spectators any day of the week.
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Old 29th April 2008, 17:04   #57
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Onions and Kirby both have pace - and aggression. As you say Tremlett got imjured - again. Id agree with a lot of what GB said over Kirby but his age might count against him. Big character though. His battle V Nick Knight in a one dayer at Edgbaston a couple of years ago was wonderfull theatre.

Re Hoggard, was he? I hadnt seen that. I thought it was because he was a little bit flat and out of form.
I thought Hoggard's form was fine if you look at the warm up games. He was economical and taking wickets. Probably the best bowler. Would he lose his form in the days between the warm up game and the 1st Test.

Also they have to be good in both forms of the game. Broad at 21 has already played more than Shreck and Onions. Tremlett might have been injured in the ODI games he has played because he hasn't done very well and hasn't managed to force his way into the team and is only the reserve. When players have asked Graveney how can they get into the England team they were told they need to be playing in both forms of the game and I would think have good figures in both.

List A
46 games 37.97 econ 5.68 s/r 50.1 - Kirby
36 games 29.76 econ 5.39 s/r 33.1 - Shreck
35 games 34.62 econ 5.22 s/r 39.8 - Onions
61 games 36.87 econ 7.05 s/r 25.5 - Richardson

42 games 29.09 econ 5.13 s/r 33.9 - Broad
96 games 24.68 econ 4.60 s/r 32.1 - Tremlett
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Old 29th April 2008, 19:37   #58
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Much as the Hampshire in me would love to see Tremlett play for England, he's going to have to improve some after his innocuous performance at Headingley last week. He found himself leading the attack against Yorkshire and I can't say he stepped up to the plate as I'd have hoped.
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Old 29th April 2008, 20:07   #59
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Don't forget that during the Lions game Lancashire and Durham are playing each other so there is bound to be a selector sent there to monitor Anderson, Flintoff, Collingwood and Harmison in particular but also keep an eye on Plunkett and Mahmood.
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Old 29th April 2008, 20:56   #60
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Don't forget that during the Lions game Lancashire and Durham are playing each other so there is bound to be a selector sent there to monitor Anderson, Flintoff, Collingwood and Harmison in particular but also keep an eye on Plunkett and Mahmood.
Just to make sure they don't steal the England candidates' lunches, you mean?
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