Cricket 24/7  

Welcome to the Cricket 24/7.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. There are also more forums available to members, such as the Lounge - where members chat about just about anything under the sun except cricket!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   Cricket 24/7 > Cricket Discussion Forums > England
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Casino Articles Terms of Use Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6th July 2008, 00:58   #81
1000yardstare
Posting Goddess
 
1000yardstare's Avatar
JA 793 Wagner 118 TCurran 7 SCurran 0 Cummins 101
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ampshire View Post
Lumb?? English cricket would be in a pretty sorry state if that happened!
Give me another name then?
1000yardstare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 01:39   #82
A Newbie
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatslogger View Post
Well I might not pick / have picked (depending on which you mean) any of them either but have any of them had a decent few games of international cricket? Hardly. Lewis is the closest and I neither think he's any chance of selection for the Lions now, nor would I dream of selecting him.
I know it's fashionable to slate Lewis on this forum, but out of the last 6 or 7 maybe 10 games for England he played in, up to his final one he only had one maybe two bad games.
A Newbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 08:33   #83
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Popodopolous View Post
I know it's fashionable to slate Lewis on this forum, but out of the last 6 or 7 maybe 10 games for England he played in, up to his final one he only had one maybe two bad games.
Just for once do you think you could pay some attention to the point actually under discussion rather than pushing your really tedious agendas, in this case how badly Gloucstershire players are treated in international selection? We were talking about whether players over 30 who have played several international games already ought to go on Lions tours, not about how poor a selection Lewis was in the first place.

1000ys, you too are missing the point, I think. If Lewis toured in 2004 and 2006 he wasn't an over 30 who had played a bunch of international games at those points was he?
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 08:42   #84
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
To be honest I've forgotten who has been the Lions' keeper recently. Anyway enhancing that side is a minor concern compared to the main side, which Read would be able to enhance in keeping terms.
A bit like Pops, you've become sidelined by a favourite hobby horse. Would a Lions tour do Read any real good in terms of experience or should the slot go to someone firstly more likely to benefit from it (and perhaps secondly more likely to be selected for England as keeper)?

Quote:
I would imagine that to be very unlikely. It was a first for many years to drop an England keeper for not being good enough at keeping, and if it indicates a changing trend in priorities -- which after Jones "the juggler" etc. would be quite reasonable -- then Ambrose may be on trial most significantly (in a 6-batters team) regardless of his runs. England are hardly likely to conclude, about Ambrose, while Read etc. are available, "Oh well, he's not that much better at keeping than Prior, so given how many more runs Prior might give us, we'll revert to him." Having ditched the most recent batting specialist, if the compromise candidate turns out still to be not good enough at keeping, there's nowhere else to go but better keepers.
Yes but so far Ambrose has turned out to be at least good enough at keeping and also at batting. I suppose I'd say that there's not merely a composite of keeping and batting merit considered but also a minimum requirement in each. Prior failed to meet the keeping requirement and Read the batting one. Of course you're right, in that selectorial priorities may change over time but I don't see dropping easy chances often being compatible with staying in the side even if averaging 50 with the bat (although a specialist batting slot might beckon) and neither do I see averaging under 20 with the bat meeting the standard.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 08:53   #85
Rey
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Castleford
Team(s): Yorkshire
Posts: 14,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
2004
2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatslogger View Post
1000ys, you too are missing the point, I think. If Lewis toured in 2004 and 2006 he wasn't an over 30 who had played a bunch of international games at those points was he?
What FS said + I was being an uber-pedant. They weren't called Lions tours in 2004 and 2006
__________________
"He has sat on the fence so long that the iron has entered his soul."
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 09:05   #86
Rey
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Castleford
Team(s): Yorkshire
Posts: 14,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
Give me another name then?
Depends if we wanted a Twenty20 specialist on the Lions tour. Lumb has been impressive in that form, but less so in the others. Average of 26 in the CC. I'd replace him with Trott, Sales, Gale or Wagh
__________________
"He has sat on the fence so long that the iron has entered his soul."
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 09:07   #87
V4never
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: south coast
Team(s): England, Hampshire, Yorkshire, Pentyrch
Posts: 10,131
I don't think Lions tours are about age, but about players with a chance to play (again) for England. For example Key captaining the Lions v NZ. It gives the England setup the chance to work with them and see if they really are up to it.

With this in mind, no problem with Read going. I'm not a big fan, because I don't think his batting is good enough internationally, but he certainly keeps wicket brilliantly, and should be in with a shout for that reason alone. Ditto with Kirby going last year; when the Lions were selected there was a great deal of doubt over England bowler selection, so just as well to look at plenty of options.
__________________
"For Michael Vaughan to use those lines and those words, it does make me feel quite ill." Iain O'Brien
V4never is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 09:41   #88
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughan's #1 fan View Post
I don't think Lions tours are about age, but about players with a chance to play (again) for England. For example Key captaining the Lions v NZ. It gives the England setup the chance to work with them and see if they really are up to it.

With this in mind, no problem with Read going. I'm not a big fan, because I don't think his batting is good enough internationally, but he certainly keeps wicket brilliantly, and should be in with a shout for that reason alone. Ditto with Kirby going last year; when the Lions were selected there was a great deal of doubt over England bowler selection, so just as well to look at plenty of options.
Yes but Key isn't that old, is he? I think he's 29 or so. Captaining the Lions team at home is a little different to going on tour too. At home it's more about looking at first reserves for the summer with a bit of a nod to future development. The tour ought to be much more about player development. That wasn't an unreasonable aspiration for Kirby, who is a bit of a late developer and was only just 30 then. I really think Read is a different sort of case as we know what he can do behind the stumps and have a pretty shrewd idea about his batting. A lot of Lions tour runs would still leave the selectors in the same sort of dilemma as they're in about his county runs, in that they've not predicted international runs before. If the selectors want to take another punt on him, which would strike me as a very bad idea except in a side with an awful lot of runs coming from the batsmen and probably one of the bowlers too (and even then, I'd back other decent keepers ahead of him on the grounds of better run scoring), then it will be a punt whatever he's done on a tour.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 12:19   #89
Psyduck
Posting God
 
Psyduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester
Team(s): England, Lancashire, Man Utd
Posts: 15,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinboy View Post
In a team with 6 batsmen and Broad, its hard to see why the selectors cant find space for Read.
If Flintoff is recalled in place of Anderson Read could come in at 9, which is roughly the right position in the order for him. Still, I'd rather pick Ambrose at 7 with Flintoff and Broad to follow at 8 and 9 respectively.
Psyduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 13:17   #90
sharky
Posting God
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Sussex
Team(s): Sussex, England
Posts: 10,258
I would have thought that Prior and Ambrose will go on the full tour, so the Lions keeper would be Mustard, possibly with Davies or Kieswetter as back-up

I would pick

Carberry*
Godleman
Denly
Joyce
Patel
Rashid
Mustard+
Tredwell
Plunkett
Mahmood
Finn

Bresnan, Woakes, Hildreth, Kieswetter plus any of the England players who are on the fringe at that time
__________________
She was like a candle in the wind...Unreliable
sharky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 13:21   #91
Kim
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,088
Interesting that Piper doesnt rate read as the best pure keeper in the country - let alone the entire universe.
Kim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 13:23   #92
sharky
Posting God
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Sussex
Team(s): Sussex, England
Posts: 10,258
Who does he rate? I know Jack Russell has commented on Read's weakness in front of first slip as well
__________________
She was like a candle in the wind...Unreliable
sharky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 14:45   #93
Kim
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,088
Foster as the best.
Kim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 15:26   #94
William
International Cricketer
 
William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Worcestershire, Hawthorn
Posts: 2,779
I can't remember the itinerary for England's tour of India but I'm guessing we didn't have the foresight to schedule the ODIs before the tests. Not only would that have allowed the ODI team to carry on the run of sub-continental ODIs started at the ICCT, but it would also have enabled the likes of Broad, Tremlett, Wright, Bopara and Prior to feature in any short Lions tour in December.

Key*
Denly
Bopara
Patel
Morgan
Hildreth
Prior+
Wright
Rashid
Bresnan
Plunkett
Broad
Tremlett
Onions

Send that mob to Australia for a month or something and we could build a decent side.

Sadly I expect the Lions tour will be during England's tour of the West Indies and will feature the usual mixed mob of county stalwarts, token youngsters and that bloke who "played a good knock when I saw him that one time at Lord's"
William is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 22:36   #95
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Posting God
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim View Post
Interesting that Piper doesnt rate read as the best pure keeper in the country - let alone the entire universe.
I'm not that surprised. Read was first chosen because he'd slogged his maiden fc hundred the week before the squads were due to be chosen, rather than as the best keeper around. He was a classic knee-jerk selection.

It was only once Read was dropped in favour of Geraint Jones did Read's keeping suddenly become the greatest of all time, as people railed against (1) an Australian Papa New Guinean being picked for England and (2) the wicketkeeper being selected on batting ability and in order to strengthen their argument they had to talk up Read's keeping, and so the myth of Chris Read was created. The longer Read was out of the spotlight, the more outlandish their claims became and Read was feted as the greatest glovesman of all time and someone who was good enough to bat as high as no.7 in test match cricket.

Have you a link to this article?
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 22:40   #96
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Posting God
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
I can't remember the itinerary for England's tour of India but I'm guessing we didn't have the foresight to schedule the ODIs before the tests. Not only would that have allowed the ODI team to carry on the run of sub-continental ODIs started at the ICCT, but it would also have enabled the likes of Broad, Tremlett, Wright, Bopara and Prior to feature in any short Lions tour in December.

Key*
Denly
Bopara
Patel
Morgan
Hildreth
Prior+
Wright
Rashid
Bresnan
Plunkett
Broad
Tremlett
Onions

Send that mob to Australia for a month or something and we could build a decent side.

Sadly I expect the Lions tour will be during England's tour of the West Indies and will feature the usual mixed mob of county stalwarts, token youngsters and that bloke who "played a good knock when I saw him that one time at Lord's"
Presumably the likes of Saj Mahmood and Simon Jones would be with the full strength team?

Otherwise I like that team, although Prior, Broad and possibly Bopara, should be with the first team. You are probably a batsman light, so I'd suggest Billy Godleman.
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 22:43   #97
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyduck View Post
If Flintoff is recalled in place of Anderson Read could come in at 9, which is roughly the right position in the order for him. Still, I'd rather pick Ambrose at 7 with Flintoff and Broad to follow at 8 and 9 respectively.
That would seem more logical. I suspect Flintoff will bat ahead of Ambrose though, probably even if he doesn't bother scoring any more runs at any point before his recall.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 22:46   #98
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 41
Posts: 43,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Presumably the likes of Saj Mahmood and Simon Jones would be with the full strength team?

Otherwise I like that team, although Prior, Broad and possibly Bopara, should be with the first team. You are probably a batsman light, so I'd suggest Billy Godleman.
Did he look good in that one time you saw him at Lords?

I like William's team too (although with the same reservations), at least partly because it doesn't contain Mustard. What is it with the guy? He's a plausibly decent keeper who has a dismal FC batting record and one year of one day success at county level, plus largely one of failure at ODI level.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 22:50   #99
Maty
Posting God
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Derybshire
Age: 29
Posts: 13,300
Send a message via MSN to Maty
a few outside bets:

Rob White - the guy can seriously hit a ball
Dawid Malan
Gale
Trego - certainly has talent....
Robbie Joseph - we are told he is very quick??
Wagg - the kid seriously is a big match player!

anyway they are all slightly eccentric picks but who knows...

Surely Horton has to be in the squad though??
Maty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2008, 22:56   #100
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
Posting God
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 27,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatslogger View Post
Did he look good in that one time you saw him at Lords?

I like William's team too (although with the same reservations), at least partly because it doesn't contain Mustard. What is it with the guy? He's a plausibly decent keeper who has a dismal FC batting record and one year of one day success at county level, plus largely one of failure at ODI level.
Did who look good at Lords?
geoff_boycotts_grandmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:22.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Cricket247.org