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Old 29th December 2008, 14:54   #141
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
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Its because Batty thinks he has a doosra. An opinion not shared by any who have watched or faced him, sadly.
To be fair, more English spinners need to start rumours that they have a doosra. It'll help put doubt in the batsmen's minds. Warne always use to come out at the start of each series with a load of ******** about how he'd invented a new delivery.
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Old 29th December 2008, 15:51   #142
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To be fair, more English spinners need to start rumours that they have a doosra. It'll help put doubt in the batsmen's minds. Warne always use to come out at the start of each series with a load of ******** about how he'd invented a new delivery.
But even so. Gareth Batty? They might as well have picked the late Gareth Hunt.
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Old 29th December 2008, 15:58   #143
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But even so. Gareth Batty? They might as well have picked the late Gareth Hunt.
Norah Batty would have been the more topical alternative.

FWIW, I'm no way defending the selection of Gareth Batty, I'm just defending him claiming to have perfected a doosra as a legitimate tactic.

Why has Ollie Rayner dropped off the radar? Not that I think he'd be a genuine test alternative.
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Old 29th December 2008, 16:24   #144
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But even so. Gareth Batty? They might as well have picked the late Gareth Hunt.
I felt Gareth Hunt lacked variety. If he could have develeped a good doosra I could have seen him have a long run in the side despite the handicap of being dead.
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Speaking to Geoff Cook today they may released Mark Wood from Durham. He rates him but the kid has had an operation and maybe one too many bowlers on the books type deal.
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Old 29th December 2008, 17:09   #145
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Norah Batty would have been the more topical alternative.
OK so you went for a fictional character, I opted for someone who is long deceased and whose name at the height of his fame briefly entered the language as not particularly flattering rhyming slang. Either way it does not suggest that either of us have a lot of confidence in doosra boy's selection.
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Old 29th December 2008, 17:15   #146
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Originally Posted by geoff_boycotts_grandmother View Post
Norah Batty would have been the more topical alternative.

FWIW, I'm no way defending the selection of Gareth Batty, I'm just defending him claiming to have perfected a doosra as a legitimate tactic.

Why has Ollie Rayner dropped off the radar? Not that I think he'd be a genuine test alternative.
Here we go. ....

What is it with you and prospective test off spinners?
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Old 29th December 2008, 17:17   #147
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To quote cricinfo:

Indians 357/4 VVS Laxman 80* (146b 11x4) OP Rayner 2.4-0-14-1

123.4 Rayner to Dhoni, OUT, doosra does Dhoni in! Released with a strange grip almost like a outswinger. It drifted in on the leg stump line and Dhoni shaped to paddle it but it broke back in to rap him in front of the middle. Rayner must have learned his trade from Saqi.
MS Dhoni lbw b Rayner 5 (12m 16b 0x4 0x6) SR: 31.25

I'm a bit puzzled as to the selection myself, although there could be mumblings about his bowling action
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Old 29th December 2008, 19:09   #148
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Here we go. ....

What is it with you and prospective test off spinners?
I think off-spinners struggle to take test wickets cheaply enough to impact a test match (unless they have a doosra).
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Old 29th December 2008, 19:11   #149
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Does Harbhajan still have his doosra? I listened to a good chunk of the two Tests, and don't remember much mention being made of it.
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Old 29th December 2008, 19:40   #150
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Will be interesting to see how the next line of seamers go in NZ which isn't a bad place to tour as conditions won't be too disimilar to the ones in England. Hopefully Mahmood and Khan have good tours so that a certain Mr Harmison comes under a little pressure to perform to keep his place for the Ashes. Healthy competition never does anyone any harm!
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Old 29th December 2008, 22:49   #151
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Does Harbhajan still have his doosra? I listened to a good chunk of the two Tests, and don't remember much mention being made of it.
He hardly bowls it at all these days, what with almost all doosras being chucked.
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Old 30th December 2008, 17:51   #152
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Does Harbhajan still have his doosra? I listened to a good chunk of the two Tests, and don't remember much mention being made of it.
Samit Patel got done by one in the ODIs and got stumped. He bowled it a few times in the Tests too, though FS is right in that it's difficult to bowl without chucking it. One of the useless Christmas presents I was given was the 'Sledger's Handbook' and Kumar Sangakarra once asked him why he wore long sleeves to bowl and short sleeves to bat, though it's perhaps not the best idea for a Sri Lankan to make such comments
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Old 30th December 2008, 19:33   #153
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Samit Patel got done by one in the ODIs and got stumped. He bowled it a few times in the Tests too, though FS is right in that it's difficult to bowl without chucking it. One of the useless Christmas presents I was given was the 'Sledger's Handbook' and Kumar Sangakarra once asked him why he wore long sleeves to bowl and short sleeves to bat, though it's perhaps not the best idea for a Sri Lankan to make such comments
I'd have like to have heard his response to that. Sangers is a bit of a legend himself with his sledges, bearing in mind his comments to Gareth Batty a few years ago.
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Old 30th December 2008, 22:33   #154
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Does Harbhajan still have his doosra? I listened to a good chunk of the two Tests, and don't remember much mention being made of it.
He bowls the doosra so often probably more than Murali, so commentators don't mention it, i don't know what FS is saying but on commentary they were showing during one spell Bhajii was bowling nearly 2/3 doosras every over. Bu the way what is the fascination of english bowlers learning the doosra? Louden started it off looks like there is a queue for others to be learning it.
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Old 31st December 2008, 00:51   #155
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Is the doosra throwing though?

I'm sure Murali still bowls it.
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Old 31st December 2008, 05:53   #156
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Murali's been bowling them quite frequently in the current test. It's bordering on throwing, i'm sure if they did tests on it during games alot of them would be bowled over the 15 degrees limit.
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Old 31st December 2008, 07:44   #157
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He bowls the doosra so often probably more than Murali, so commentators don't mention it, i don't know what FS is saying but on commentary they were showing during one spell Bhajii was bowling nearly 2/3 doosras every over. Bu the way what is the fascination of english bowlers learning the doosra? Louden started it off looks like there is a queue for others to be learning it.
Louden never bowler a true doosra (ie like saqlain or harbhajan - i am leaving Murali out of this as his arm and wrist are abnormal so others can't really emulate him). Louden flicked the ball of one finger so that it would go a little bit the other way, almost like an arm ball with a little bit extra.

As for whether ripping doosras can be bowled rather than thrown I am inclined to agree with Dan Vettorri (as reported in Boock's biography of Stephen Fleming - essentially that it cant be done accurately without some deliberate straightening of the elbow. As to whether that could be done while keeping within the 15 degree rule, well, who knows, but if a large chunk of the 15 degree allowance is already accounted for by involantary straightening then if it is possible it must be very difficult indeed.
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Old 31st December 2008, 10:30   #158
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My reaction as well.

I'm amazed Malan hasn't made it onto the Lions squad as well.

I thought Rayner was supposed to be the next spinner in line.

1. Robert Key (captain, Kent)
2. Joe Denly (Kent)
3. Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire)
4. Ravi Bopara (Essex)
5. Eoin Morgan (Middlesex)
6. Samit Patel (Nottinghamshire)
7. Steven Davies (Worcestershire)*
8. Liam Plunkett (Durham)
9. Amjad Khan (Kent)
10. Sajid Mahmood (Lancashire)
11. Mark Davies (Durham)

Luke Wright (Sussex)
Gareth Batty (Worcestershire)
Stephen Moore (Worcestershire)
Why isn't Bresnan in the squad? Is he injured or something?

Nasser Hussain has predicted that Denly, Bresnan, Plunkett, Mahmood and Foster will be ones to watch in 2009.
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Old 31st December 2008, 12:47   #159
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Louden never bowler a true doosra (ie like saqlain or harbhajan - i am leaving Murali out of this as his arm and wrist are abnormal so others can't really emulate him). Louden flicked the ball of one finger so that it would go a little bit the other way, almost like an arm ball with a little bit extra.

As for whether ripping doosras can be bowled rather than thrown I am inclined to agree with Dan Vettorri (as reported in Boock's biography of Stephen Fleming - essentially that it cant be done accurately without some deliberate straightening of the elbow. As to whether that could be done while keeping within the 15 degree rule, well, who knows, but if a large chunk of the 15 degree allowance is already accounted for by involantary straightening then if it is possible it must be very difficult indeed.
Good technical analysis, Bison.
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Old 31st December 2008, 12:58   #160
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Originally Posted by Marauding Bison View Post
Louden never bowler a true doosra (ie like saqlain or harbhajan - i am leaving Murali out of this as his arm and wrist are abnormal so others can't really emulate him). Louden flicked the ball of one finger so that it would go a little bit the other way, almost like an arm ball with a little bit extra.

As for whether ripping doosras can be bowled rather than thrown I am inclined to agree with Dan Vettorri (as reported in Boock's biography of Stephen Fleming - essentially that it cant be done accurately without some deliberate straightening of the elbow. As to whether that could be done while keeping within the 15 degree rule, well, who knows, but if a large chunk of the 15 degree allowance is already accounted for by involantary straightening then if it is possible it must be very difficult indeed.
From what I understand Mendis does something a bit similar (but obviously far more drastic and more spectacular) with his "carrom ball'.
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