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Old 12th September 2008, 15:09   #161
Marauding Bison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
... lurve ....
What kind of talk is that? And from MF. I am shocked.
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Old 12th September 2008, 15:19   #162
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What kind of talk is that? And from MF. I am shocked.
I don't think standard vocabulary suitably conveys KP's over-the-top touchy-feely approach and I feel that the word lurve does it better.
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Old 12th September 2008, 15:20   #163
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Has the ECB established the first English "lurve-in" since 1968?
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Old 12th September 2008, 15:43   #164
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I believe the lucrative central contracts serve as a carrot to aspiring cricketers to achieve their goals ultimately to be rewarded by playing for England and the remuneration that that brings.

When you consider the popularity of cricket when England does well, surely the players need to share in the wealth that all the adulation and pride generates. This in turn motivates the best young athletes to consider cricket as a viable option to other sports.

If the number of central contracts are too few, then it would be my view that the players are not being sufficiently recognised, in financial terms, to provide an incentive to up-and-coming cricketers. Then you will find the county game having to be populated with ever more Kolpaks and international refugees.
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Old 12th September 2008, 15:52   #165
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I was surprised that Bob Willis had the same view as you stevie and was pro-Vaughan and Strauss getting one. He made a good point about the increment contracts being handed out because the selectors aren't sure those players are good enough so won't pay them the full amount but still want control of them, something I hadn't really thought about but agree with. Giving out more central contracts would be a better idea and the ECB can certainly afford it

I also almost fell off my chair when Willis was extremely positive about Matt Prior
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Old 12th September 2008, 15:58   #166
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There is plenty of money available for good cricketers. And while Sharkey's argument makes sense with regard to incremental contracts for the maybes', it doesn't excuse handing out vast amounts of the Murdoch dosh to the past its'. By all means aspire, but perhaps the aspiration needs to last a little longer before the gravy train arrives.
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Old 12th September 2008, 16:14   #167
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Vaughan and Strauss have to know that the gig is up for them if they don't produce the goods over the next 12 months. However, I would not want to send them into international retirement at this particular juncture - make the wannabes work even harder to take the bat away from these two, rather than risking giving the rewards prematurely.
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Old 12th September 2008, 16:18   #168
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Another 12 months of decline? You're a generous man indeed.
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Old 12th September 2008, 16:24   #169
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Another 12 months of decline? You're a generous man indeed.
No, I think you have to persist with class players, and that is what we have with Vaughan and Strauss. Proven test class, who have had a rough time of it for about 18 months, but who can be expected to produce again.
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Old 12th September 2008, 17:25   #170
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Can they, though?
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Old 12th September 2008, 17:46   #171
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Can they, though?
True lurve doesn't always run smoothly.

I have little doubt that they can, we shall just have to wait and see whether they will.
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Old 12th September 2008, 18:23   #172
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No, I think you have to persist with class players, and that is what we have with Vaughan and Strauss. Proven test class, who have had a rough time of it for about 18 months, but who can be expected to produce again.
Sorry Stevie but I disagree. They were both consistently Test Class 4 or 5 years ago. They aren't now. Nowhere near it most of the time. I don't think they will ever achieve that level of performance again. In my opinion they're in their thirties, both well past their best and should have been replaced in the last year of so. I'll stake what little reputation I have on it.
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Old 12th September 2008, 18:38   #173
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Sorry Stevie but I disagree. They were both consistently Test Class 4 or 5 years ago. They aren't now. Nowhere near it most of the time. I don't think they will ever achieve that level of performance again. In my opinion they're in their thirties, both well past their best and should have been replaced in the last year of so. I'll stake what little reputation I have on it.
Regardless of the outcome, your reputation is not at stake, as far as I'm concerned.

I'll admit that Vaughan and Strauss owe us all something really special for the vote of confidence they are receiving, and that there is a possibility they will not prove up to delivering that. Maybe all the murmurs of doubt will be enough to galvanise them into a grand finale after all. The class is there, I feel, so will self-confidence re-emerge along with good form and the determination to prove their detractors wrong? We shall see.
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Old 12th September 2008, 19:24   #174
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Quote:
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Sorry Stevie but I disagree. They were both consistently Test Class 4 or 5 years ago. They aren't now. Nowhere near it most of the time. I don't think they will ever achieve that level of performance again. In my opinion they're in their thirties, both well past their best and should have been replaced in the last year of so. I'll stake what little reputation I have on it.
Agree with you re Strauss, Death, less so with Vaughan who was OK after his return and batted reasonably well up until the New Zealand tour where he dropped down to 3 to let Strauss back to open which was the worst mistake he could have made. Admittedly he didn't bat too badly at 3 in 2007 but when he moved to open with Cook there was a better balance I felt and it was a shame that they didn't continue as an opening partnership. Strauss should not have had his Central Contract last year let alone one for next year. Vaughan admittedly shouldn't have one for next year but its a joke that Strauss is still there in the frame when his record against the big nations has been so poor since the A**** 2005.
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Old 12th September 2008, 23:03   #175
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Blimey.That's rare.
I'd argue with you but it might prove your point.

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It strikes me as human nature that if you are given vast rewards too early, before you've achieved a high level of consistency and proven value, desire and performance are likely to plateau or even drop off. If I was guaranteed 200 000 in advance for the next year regardless of what I did, I'm not sure how hard I'd work, especially if I thought that there wasn't too much competition for my job at the moment.
There's some truth in that but then there really is a decent set of counter arguments here. Firstly, there are still plenty of things to play for: pride; England; match fees etc. Secondly, a contract can give a player the security in his place he needs to perform without too much anxiety that he will be dropped the moment he has a bad game (unless he's Hoggard, of course). Thirdly, if the contract is fairly juicy and being in the England team is such a good thing then there's a decent incentive to do well enough to stay in the contracted squad. I really don't buy the oft repeated notion that the players are molly coddled too much to perform well and that confidence in their places breeds complacency.
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Old 13th September 2008, 02:21   #176
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Central Contracts and what the players achieved during theirs -

Atherton - 2 six month contracts 2000 & 2001
14 Tests 855 runs at 34.20

Ramprakash - 1 six month contract 2000
4 Tests 95 runs at 13.57

Hussain - 3 six month & 2 yearly 2000-2004
37 Tests 2091 runs at 35.44
26 ODIs 668 runs at 29.04

Hick - 1 six month contract 2000
6 Tests 252 runs at 25.20
7 ODIs 126 runs at 25.20

Vaughan - 3 six month contracts & 7 yearly 2000-2009
72 Tests 5244 runs at 43.33
77 ODIs 1741 runs at 26.78

Flintoff - 2 six monthly & 7 yearly 2000 - 2009 (no contract 2001)
58 Tests 3053 runs at 34.69 & 185 wickets at 31.52
100 ODIs 2690 runs at 36.84 & 132 wickets at 23.06

Stewart - 2 six month & 1 yearly 2000-2003 (no contract 2002)
25 Tests 1272 runs at 35.33
28 ODIs at 849 runs at 33.96

White - 2 six month contracts 00/01
7 Tests 100 runs at 10.00 14 wickets at 30.35
6 ODIs 50 runs at 16.66 11 wickets at 13.72

Schofield - 1 six month contract 00
2 Tests 0 wickets

Gough 3 six month contracts 00-02
14 Tests 65 wickets at 25.24
18 ODIs 24 wickets at 28.62

Caddick 3 six month & 1 yearly 00-03
23 Tests 93 wickets at 30.54
26 ODIs 32 wickets at 27.71

Headley 1 six month contract 00
0 Tests or ODIs

Trescothick 2 six month & 5 yearly 01-07
61 Tests 4826 runs at 45.52
92 ODIs 3336 runs at 38.79

Thorpe 3 six month & 1 10 month 01-05 (no contract 03)
22 Tests 1572 runs at 56.14
3 ODIs 45 runs at 15.00

Cork 1 six month contract 01
3 Tests 6 wickets at 47.33
5 ODIs 6 wickets 35.83

Giles 2 six month & 5 yearly contracts 01-07
42 Tests 106 wickets at 42.89
45 ODIs 38 wickets at 37.71

Hoggard 3 six month & 5 yearly contracts 01-08
54 Tests 213 wickets at 29.40
24 ODIs 32 wickets at 33.78

Butcher 1 six month & 3 yearly contracts 02-05
26 Tests 1637 runs at 37.20

Foster 1 six month contract 02
6 Tests 201 runs at 28.71
11 ODIs 41 runs at 13.66

Harmison 2 six month & 5 yearly contacts 03-09
50 Tests 177 wickets at 33.67
46 ODIs 67 wickets at 28.94

Anderson 1 six monthly & 4 yearly 03-09 (no contract for 06-07)
22 Tests 79 wickets at 32.91
46 ODIs 50 wickets at 33.76

Collingwood 5 yearly contracts 04-09 (no contract for 05)
36 Tests 2672 runs at 43.09
90 ODIs 2485 runs at 38.23 & 44 wickets at 41.20

Simon Jones 1 six month contract & 3 yearly 04-07
14 Tests 45 wickets at 29.60
8 ODIs 7 wickets at 39.28

Strauss 5 yearly contracts 05-09
46 Tests 3353 runs at 40.39
60 ODIs 1661 runs at 29.66

Pietersen 1 2 month contract & 4 yearly contracts 05-09
43 Tests 3890 runs at 50.51
82 ODIs 2822 runs at 47.83

Geraint Jones 2 yearly contracts 05-06
23 Tests 750 runs at 22.72
37 ODIs 704 runs at 26.07

Bell 4 yearly contracts 06-09
35 Tests 2455 runs at 42.32
67 ODIs 2210 runs at 36.83

Cook 3 yearly contracts 07-09
25 Tests 1812 runs at 39.39
20 ODIs 611 runs at 30.55

Panesar 3 yearly contracts 07-09
23 Tests 82 wickets at 31.78
26 ODI 24 wicket at 40.83

Sidebottom 2 yearly contracts 08-09
11 Tests 52 wickets at 24.42
13 ODIs 20 wickets at 26.05
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Old 14th September 2008, 09:49   #177
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Wow, that's telling. Thanks for doing all the work which I'm afraid, is beyond my commitment to the board. From I quick glance I's say that considerably less then half those players actually justified their contracts and the number that were given them at the point that long term injury or poor form was carrying them out of the game (usually for good) is alarming. I think I'm becoming convinced that the system is a smarties for the children one. If I was an employer I'd be doing some sums and assessing whether or not I was getting value for my money. Do you think the ECB ever look at figures like these before they sweep matters under the carpet?

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Old 14th September 2008, 09:55   #178
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Wow, that's telling. Thanks for doing all the work which I'm afraid, is beyond my commitment to the board. From I quick glance I's say that considerably less then half those players actually justified their contracts and the number that were given them at the point injury or poor form was carrying them out of the game (usually for good) is alarming. I think I'm becoming convinced that the system is a smarties for the children one. If i was an employer I'd be doing some sums and assessing whether or not I was getting value for my money. Do you think the ECB ever look at figures like these before they sweep matters under the carpet?
What when they have multi-millionaires to romance and twenty20 competitions to stage? Hardly likely.
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Old 14th September 2008, 10:24   #179
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I've just heard Vaughan saying that he was very lucky to get one because he doesn't make enough runs to justify it. Jobs for the boys anyone?
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Old 14th September 2008, 10:27   #180
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I've just heard Vaughan saying that he was very lucky to get one because he doesn't make enough runs to justify it. Jobs for the boys anyone?
It's so easy to be refreshingly honest when you've got the comfort of a twelve month contract isn't it.
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