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Old 9th December 2010, 21:05   #61
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He hasn't played the switch hit in yonks, probably since before his form slump and injury. I think it's just one of those things, it was his day on a flat pitch against a dire attack. I don't think he changed his game one bit. This score was always going to come eventually if given the time to do some work away from the limelight. Another brilliant piece of management from Flower and co.
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Old 9th December 2010, 22:47   #62
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Not been the quietest tour so far for Kev after his speeding fine and twitter rant!
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Old 9th December 2010, 23:57   #63
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He change his style in that he was much more controlled. No switch hits or other trick shots. He could get the big scores now.
Because he didn't before? Pietersen has made more scores of 150+ than anybody else in the squad despite batting in his so-called reckless, selfish manner.
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Old 10th December 2010, 00:07   #64
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Might I suggest that the KP disciples read Vaughan's article in the Telegraph today. He was KP's captain and he says that this was KP's first real innings of maturity and if that's the opinion of his former captain then it should be good enough for the disciples.
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Old 10th December 2010, 05:38   #65
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Might I suggest that the KP disciples read Vaughan's article in the Telegraph today. He was KP's captain and he says that this was KP's first real innings of maturity and if that's the opinion of his former captain then it should be good enough for the disciples.
You might. Or you could just watch his actual innings like the rest of us.

How many scores of 150+ does kp have? And this is his first mature one? Didn't realise how thick Vaughan was!
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Old 10th December 2010, 09:14   #66
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He hasn't played the switch hit in yonks, probably since before his form slump and injury. I think it's just one of those things, it was his day on a flat pitch against a dire attack. I don't think he changed his game one bit. This score was always going to come eventually if given the time to do some work away from the limelight. Another brilliant piece of management from Flower and co.
If he hasn't changed his approach why on earth would he be telling the media that he has realised that he needed to change? Wouldn't he have just claimed that that's the way he plays and that his innings justified it?
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Old 10th December 2010, 09:22   #67
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Because he didn't before? Pietersen has made more scores of 150+ than anybody else in the squad despite batting in his so-called reckless, selfish manner.
With that talent to make scores of 150+ he should have been going on to bigger scores, been hungry for runs like the great batsmen are. I don't understand why otherwise intelligent cricket fans would be blinded by Pietersen's dazzling displays to the extent of not actually wanting him to make his innings really pay more often.
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Old 10th December 2010, 14:29   #68
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If he hasn't changed his approach why on earth would he be telling the media that he has realised that he needed to change? Wouldn't he have just claimed that that's the way he plays and that his innings justified it?
Yes. They always tell the press exactly what they feel, they never say what they think the press wants to hear, prompting us to start threads on such a subject.

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With that talent to make scores of 150+ he should have been going on to bigger scores, been hungry for runs like the great batsmen are. I don't understand why otherwise intelligent cricket fans would be blinded by Pietersen's dazzling displays to the extent of not actually wanting him to make his innings really pay more often.
I don't understand why you and cesar think it's blind or unintelligent support. We're not talking about Anderson here.

In this thread, no-one is suggesting that KP shouldn't go on and make more big scores than he has already. They're saying that a big innings, in good batting conditions, against a weak attack - an innings that he began by charging, and edging and mis-hitting the great spinning talents of Doherty - is not an example of a change in tactic in order to achieve a greater score.
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Old 10th December 2010, 14:39   #69
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If he hasn't changed his approach why on earth would he be telling the media that he has realised that he needed to change? Wouldn't he have just claimed that that's the way he plays and that his innings justified it?
Because that way danger lies.

Hasnt he had enough critisism for saying exactly that in the past?
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Old 10th December 2010, 14:40   #70
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Yes. They always tell the press exactly what they feel, they never say what they think the press wants to hear, prompting us to start threads on such a subject.

In this thread, no-one is suggesting that KP shouldn't go on and make more big scores than he has already. They're saying that a big innings, in good batting conditions, against a weak attack - an innings that he began by charging, and edging and mis-hitting the great spinning talents of Doherty - is not an example of a change in tactic in order to achieve a greater score.
We're using a longstanding thread.
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Old 10th December 2010, 23:26   #71
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With that talent to make scores of 150+ he should have been going on to bigger scores, been hungry for runs like the great batsmen are. I don't understand why otherwise intelligent cricket fans would be blinded by Pietersen's dazzling displays to the extent of not actually wanting him to make his innings really pay more often.
When did we say we didn't want him to score more runs? I'm personally sceptical that changing his batting style to a more conservative one (which I don't think there's any evidence that he did in his double hundred, or indeed his other huge scores) would make him more likely to score runs but I've expounded on that point in great detail before and am now too obsessed with iPhone games to be wasting that sort of time repeating myself.
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Old 11th December 2010, 00:24   #72
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This innings was, by common consent, different and more mature than previous innings whether the disciples like it or not. Vastly experienced observers of the game better qualified than anyone here and including several England captains, amongst them Vaughan who for a time was KP's captain, have said so. The man himself has said so and it wasn't just for a sound bite because he could easily have said 'that's the way I always play and it came off today'. But he didn't because perhaps he has grown up. Perhaps the disciples need to follow his lead.
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Old 11th December 2010, 01:08   #73
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Originally Posted by Cesaristmas View Post
This innings was, by common consent, different and more mature than previous innings whether the disciples like it or not. Vastly experienced observers of the game better qualified than anyone here and including several England captains, amongst them Vaughan who for a time was KP's captain, have said so. The man himself has said so and it wasn't just for a sound bite because he could easily have said 'that's the way I always play and it came off today'. But he didn't because perhaps he has grown up. Perhaps the disciples need to follow his lead.
Is that the Vaughan you've been slagging off incessantly until he said something backing your opinion or a different one? The commentators, like a lot of posters on here, seem to like to generate a narrative, rather than go with the evidence of what actually happened and what they saw.
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Old 11th December 2010, 01:11   #74
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What about the evidence of what Pietersen himself said?
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Old 11th December 2010, 01:16   #75
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What about the evidence of what Pietersen himself said?
Because again, you take everything he says at face value when he's saying something you don't like? I agree with slop and Kim: he may be saying what he thinks people want to hear after all the criticism of the "it's the way I play" stuff. Alternatively, he may have convinced himself he's changed his game, but it didn't look like he had. He played a lot of shots. Does the fact that he took longer than he had done on previous occasions to get out playing one really demonstrate a difference in his approach.

His last double ton was a very similar affair, if I remember correctly, also out slogging in a declaration situation, having flayed a poor attack on a good track. He was probably a bit loose at the beginning in that game too.
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Old 11th December 2010, 01:43   #76
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This innings was, by common consent, different and more mature than previous innings
Ah, the midnight school of Maths and false statements. Common as in majority, not even close, unless you're a WUM ignoring posts on this thread.

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whether the disciples like it or not.
Wow. Just how desperate are you?

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Originally Posted by Cesaristmas View Post
Vastly experienced observers of the game better qualified than anyone here and including several England captains, amongst them Vaughan who for a time was KP's captain, have said so. The man himself has said so and it wasn't just for a sound bite because he could easily have said 'that's the way I always play and it came off today'. But he didn't because perhaps he has grown up. Perhaps the disciples need to follow his lead.
Oh, that desperate. You still haven't addressed the points anyone's made about the actual cricket he played. Stop trying to find quotes and start thinking for yourself.
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Old 11th December 2010, 03:23   #77
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... The commentators, like a lot of posters on here, seem to like to generate a narrative, rather than go with the evidence of what actually happened and what they saw.
I think we really have to include KP and ourselves as commentators here. In KP's case his generated narrative may well be based on what he thinks is the case, but he might simply be mistaken about what is the case. You are also generating a narrative, to say nothing of having a hotline to KP's deepest truths that he does not possess himself. That would tally, in a way, with what many have said all along, namely that KP does not have (or has not had) much access to his own deepest truths ...

Incidentally, I'm all in favour of the perspective that gives a person's own accounts of their behaviour no special status as compared to the accounts of those who occupy different minds. But I have noticed that people tend to react rather badly to this suggestion, unless they happen to be paying someone to supply an alternative account.
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Old 11th December 2010, 03:58   #78
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I side with MF and Cesar here. This was an innings of composure and quality. Compared to other big scores, this was a different innings. One or two dodgy shots early on but that was serene compared to say Oval 2005. I saw most of it, not all 'cos I dozed off, but for most of it you could have been watching a Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting or several other greats of my time. I do not compare him with them, I say that innings was comparable and one they would have been proud of. KP punished the bad ball mercilessly and looked rock against the good ball. No dodgy singles to get off the mark, no trying to flay the bowler into WA just to bring up 100 in style, just a ruthless and merciless dismantling of the opposition bowling. I remember Trescothick, of whom I was also not a fan in his early days playing a similar innings in SA. Loads of lazy 30s and fluffy 50s but suddenly produced a sublime innings. All of a sudden I am convinced KP can and should become one of the bats in my Hall of Fame!
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Old 11th December 2010, 09:36   #79
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This innings was, by common consent, different and more mature than previous innings whether the disciples like it or not. Vastly experienced observers of the game better qualified than anyone here and including several England captains, amongst them Vaughan who for a time was KP's captain, have said so. The man himself has said so and it wasn't just for a sound bite because he could easily have said 'that's the way I always play and it came off today'. But he didn't because perhaps he has grown up. Perhaps the disciples need to follow his lead.
Why was it more mature than, say, the (much slower) 158 he scored at Adelaide last time out here against a vastly superior attack? Why was it more mature than the 8 100s he's scored in tests at a slower rate than this one?

It cant just be because a group of hacks with a vested interest in creating a narrative sway so. If this innings was so different, there cant be anything easier than explaining the specific differences, so if/when you have time, plz do.
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Old 11th December 2010, 10:14   #80
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I side with MF and Cesar here. This was an innings of composure and quality. Compared to other big scores, this was a different innings. One or two dodgy shots early on but that was serene compared to say Oval 2005. I saw most of it, not all 'cos I dozed off, but for most of it you could have been watching a Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting or several other greats of my time. I do not compare him with them, I say that innings was comparable and one they would have been proud of. KP punished the bad ball mercilessly and looked rock against the good ball. No dodgy singles to get off the mark, no trying to flay the bowler into WA just to bring up 100 in style, just a ruthless and merciless dismantling of the opposition bowling. I remember Trescothick, of whom I was also not a fan in his early days playing a similar innings in SA. Loads of lazy 30s and fluffy 50s but suddenly produced a sublime innings. All of a sudden I am convinced KP can and should become one of the bats in my Hall of Fame!
That's fair enough Charlie and a good post. But when you say oval 2005, I think of lords 2005. Much as I've always despised KP (sorry to ruin your excuse Cesar), that was when I saw that KP will be one of the best bats of this era. The years since them have confirmed this to me, much more than a big score against the worst aus attack in decades in very good batting conditions. .
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