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Old 3rd January 2011, 22:52   #141
sanskritsimon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim View Post
... why is "hes mentally fragile" the default knee jerk?
Because it would primarily refer to the inability to cope with being slagged off by media commentators -- and thus it would move Trott (or whoever) onto a field with different, non-cricketing players
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Old 3rd January 2011, 23:00   #142
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I suggest you reread the nature and tone of the critisism. And reexamine its basis carefully.

Why is there bound to be knee jerking from any reasonably mature media? And even if there is - which I simply dont accept - why is "hes mentally fragile" the default knee jerk?
Because journalists are expected to have an opinion as to the quality of a player, and it isn't an exact science. They talk about sound technique, flair, temperament etc but a lot of it is in the eye of the beholder and/or preconceptions about what someone is going to be like. They see someone play a debut innings posting a good score and looking fairly assured and assume this is the real deal. Next time he comes out to bat he may scratch around for a bit and get out, and the pundit then has to wonder if he has got it wrong. Hence a bit of knee jerking so as not to look like the one who is out of step.

I'm talking about the early stages of someone's international career, of course. Once established their reputations will suffer less knee jerking as pundits firm up their views about players. Unfortunately this is more likely to lead to an unshakeable faith in or distrust of a player's ability which nothing can shift.

And as you say, when pundits form a long lasting unfavourable opinion of a player, the easiest put down is that of mental fragility.
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Old 4th January 2011, 10:47   #143
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Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
Because journalists are expected to have an opinion as to the quality of a player, and it isn't an exact science. They talk about sound technique, flair, temperament etc but a lot of it is in the eye of the beholder and/or preconceptions about what someone is going to be like. They see someone play a debut innings posting a good score and looking fairly assured and assume this is the real deal. Next time he comes out to bat he may scratch around for a bit and get out, and the pundit then has to wonder if he has got it wrong. Hence a bit of knee jerking so as not to look like the one who is out of step.

I'm talking about the early stages of someone's international career, of course. Once established their reputations will suffer less knee jerking as pundits firm up their views about players. Unfortunately this is more likely to lead to an unshakeable faith in or distrust of a player's ability which nothing can shift.

And as you say, when pundits form a long lasting unfavourable opinion of a player, the easiest put down is that of mental fragility.
You appear to have left out the word "informed" in front of opinion in your very first sentence - which is the least I expect. And so many of them arent. For example, the chief writer for one national openly boasts about "never watching county cricket". Yet he will still opine on who England should pick from county cricket even though, for example, he never mentioned Trott as a possible pick at all until he was picked.

On the specifics of Trott though here is an example of what I object to after the SA tour :

"Am I alone in wondering whether we might already have seen the best
of Trott in an England shirt? Since the euphoria of his extraordinary
Test debut, he has clearly struggled with the mental demands of
international cricket. I interviewed him in February, just before the
squad left for Bangladesh, and I was amazed at how negative and self-critical he was.
“A lot of people of Warwickshire are saying ‘Well, we won’t see you
much this year’,” he said at one point. “It’s like ‘Well, if I keep
nicking these balls, you might do....To me, Trott just seems too tortured a character to survive the merciless merry-go-round of international cricket"
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Old 4th January 2011, 11:03   #144
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Originally Posted by Kim View Post
You appear to have left out the word "informed" in front of opinion in your very first sentence - which is the least I expect. And so many of them arent. For example, the chief writer for one national openly boasts about "never watching county cricket". Yet he will still opine on who England should pick from county cricket even though, for example, he never mentioned Trott as a possible pick at all until he was picked.

On the specifics of Trott though here is an example of what I object to after the SA tour :

"Am I alone in wondering whether we might already have seen the best
of Trott in an England shirt? Since the euphoria of his extraordinary
Test debut, he has clearly struggled with the mental demands of
international cricket. I interviewed him in February, just before the
squad left for Bangladesh, and I was amazed at how negative and self-critical he was.
“A lot of people of Warwickshire are saying ‘Well, we won’t see you
much this year’,” he said at one point. “It’s like ‘Well, if I keep
nicking these balls, you might do....To me, Trott just seems too tortured a character to survive the merciless merry-go-round of international cricket"
Have to agree that "informed" does not describe a lot of the journalists. A lot (possibly most) of the opinions spouted on this and similar message boards are uninformed, but we are amateurs. It's depressing that so many professional pundits appear as uninformed as most of us. The one who interviewed Trott has totally missed what was obviously a self-deprecatory humorous remark. It wouldn't have been quite the thing to assume that he was now assured of his England place.
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Old 4th January 2011, 15:38   #145
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Old 4th January 2011, 18:28   #146
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Lighten up, Kim.
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Old 5th January 2011, 00:28   #147
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Very funny, wasn't it?
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Old 5th January 2011, 01:01   #148
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Very funny, wasn't it?
Can you imagine what Kim would be like if Trott was (a) as written off as Cook had been; and then (b) as successful as Cook has been?
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Old 5th January 2011, 01:23   #149
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Can you imagine what Kim would be like if Trott was (a) as written off as Cook had been; and then (b) as successful as Cook has been?
It's best not even to think about it, gbg.
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Old 5th January 2011, 12:31   #150
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Old 20th April 2011, 15:14   #151
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I have this gnawing worry if it can be called that. Take a look at the opposition that Trott has played against and scored runs against, Australia, Bangladesh and Pakistan. He has failed against South Africa and has yet to play India or Sri Lanka, the other sides that make the top 4 in test cricket. I am worried that he will follow a Warwickshire tradition that included Dennis Amiss running for cover against the West Indies and of course Ian Bell predominantly only scoring runs when others have succeeded in being someone who flatters to deceive in England colours and never turn it on against the big guns.

I don't know, I couldn't be sure but it is something that has been bugging me recently.
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Old 20th April 2011, 15:22   #152
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I wonder if anyone will bite.
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Old 20th April 2011, 18:22   #153
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I wonder if anyone will bite.
Blast you turning up so early to try and curtail proceedings!
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Old 20th April 2011, 18:24   #154
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Don't blame ddb. This is so obvious I'm surprised there weren't large flashing neon lights around it. Poor by your standards Chin. You are not Nick Knight yet.
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Old 20th April 2011, 19:05   #155
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Don't blame ddb. This is so obvious I'm surprised there weren't large flashing neon lights around it. Poor by your standards Chin. You are not Nick Knight yet.
I am genuinely worried though that he's due a poor trot (if you'll pardon the pun) in the side. He averages 60 which any conventional wisdom will tell you is very, very hard to achieve even for the likes of legendary players such as Sachin, Ponting, Samaraweera and even that superlative entertainer and unavowed IPL success Jacques Kallis.
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Old 20th April 2011, 19:11   #156
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I am genuinely worried though that he's due a poor trot (if you'll pardon the pun) in the side. He averages 60 which any conventional wisdom will tell you is very, very hard to achieve even for the likes of legendary players such as Sachin, Ponting, Samaraweera and even that superlative entertainer and unavowed IPL success Jacques Kallis.
But not Sangakkara(Hi Kim)
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Old 20th April 2011, 23:10   #157
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I am genuinely worried though that he's due a poor trot (if you'll pardon the pun) in the side. He averages 60 which any conventional wisdom will tell you is very, very hard to achieve even for the likes of legendary players such as Sachin, Ponting, Samaraweera and even that superlative entertainer and unavowed IPL success Jacques Kallis.
He's also got to contend with the relentless grind.

It's one thing shining for 18 months, but when you've been on the wheel for 2 years playing international cricket - tests, ODIs and 20:20s without a break, it's hard to maintain that level. Few manage it.
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Old 21st April 2011, 08:04   #158
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He's also got to contend with the relentless grind.

It's one thing shining for 18 months, but when you've been on the wheel for 2 years playing international cricket - tests, ODIs and 20:20s without a break, it's hard to maintain that level. Few manage it.
In all fairness he's not likely to worry the T20 squad is our trotty but I know what you mean. We aren't playing 7 bloody ODI's v India at the end of the summer are we? I know we've got to go over there to play them in 5 ODIs in the autumn before going to the emirates to play Pak. Incidentally I'm thinking I might go to one of those tests out there if things work out.
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Old 21st April 2011, 08:37   #159
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I am genuinely worried though that he's due a poor trot (if you'll pardon the pun) in the side. He averages 60 which any conventional wisdom will tell you is very, very hard to achieve even for the likes of legendary players such as Sachin, Ponting, Samaraweera and even that superlative entertainer and unavowed IPL success Jacques Kallis.
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Old 27th April 2011, 02:03   #160
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