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Old 26th December 2017, 08:24   #41
Rebelstar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieh View Post
Moeen’s batting will be far more important than his bowling in this game.
Averaging 59.80 with ball against the aussies home and away, but his ER under 4.00 will be one thing they like and that he can bat.

But his batting average against the aussies is also not great, 409 runs @ 29.21.

Moeen Ali batting and bowling averages by opponent

vs AUS : 409 runs @ 29.21 & 15 wkts @ 59.80
vs NZL : 104 runs @ 26.00 & 5 wkts @ 50.00
vs WIN : 175 runs @ 25.00 & 11 wkts @ 41.45

vs PAK : 400 runs @ 36.36 & 20 wkts @ 47.50
vs SRL : 351 runs @ 58.50 & 5 wkts @ 72.20

vs IND : 503 runs @ 33.67 & 29 wkts @ 37.45
vs BAN : 92 runs @ 23.00 & 11 wkts @ 22.91
vs SAF : 368 runs @ 33.45 & 35 wkts @ 25.03


Grouped if not in an exact order by not nearly all-round enough (top 3), decent or better batting but not good enough bowling (middle 2) and good or decent enough with bat and/or ball in the other (bottom 3) Obviously some samples are bigger than others, but would people be as quick to point out where it's good and the sample is small as if it were bad and the sample small...................?

Also only the kiwi and deshi samples are less than 5 Tests. If Ali is supposed to be an all-rounder he's all-round not good enough, a fine example of having a can bat, can bowl, does enough with bat and/or ball to be 'better' than trying an alternative. And fair enough, if there's no guarantee a batsman will average 33+ and no guarantee a spinner will average under 33 then maybe he's in on a default merit ie the side is pretty ordinary all round, excuse the pun, and so merit and mediocre meet in the middle.
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Old 26th December 2017, 08:29   #42
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The selectors need to be sacked. I am a fan of moeen but he should not have played any of the tests in this series as he has not been fit once. Sadly the selectors picked a back up spinner who anyone who knew anything about cricket was unselectable in a four man attack which meant that moeen would be rolled out injured unless he was dead. What a complete shambles.

The summary given by one of the players the other day about the possible impact of overton replacement said it all. The best they had on crane was "and he has played t20"

Bunch of jokers.
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Old 26th December 2017, 08:30   #43
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Funny how stats work rebel. Are we pretending for this thread that moeen wasn't third highest scoring batsman (or was it second) and third highest wicket taker when we won the last ashes series. He is clearly injured ffs and has been all series .
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Old 26th December 2017, 08:31   #44
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I find it a bit amusing England play five bowlers to rest their quicks, share the workload etc and yet instead of bowling the 22 or so a quartet would each bowl give or take, the four quicks bowled 17-21.

Didn't exactly keep Anderson 'fresh', Broad and Woakes didn't avoid much either, and instead of Ali bowling a bunch of nothing overs they gave Malan some.

Was interesting on commentary about the fields being split such that the bowlers were afraid to bowl too straight for fear of straying down leg side. I suspect all fear is now firmly about how many Smith and Marsh will make, having gotten in a position to get at the aussies and maybe bowl them out for 400 or maybe even less, I think England are now just praying one of the pair make a mistake or they are setting themselves to field for 2+ more sessions.
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Old 26th December 2017, 08:37   #45
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
The selectors need to be sacked. I am a fan of moeen but he should not have played any of the tests in this series as he has not been fit once. Sadly the selectors picked a back up spinner who anyone who knew anything about cricket was unselectable in a four man attack which meant that moeen would be rolled out injured unless he was dead. What a complete shambles.

The summary given by one of the players the other day about the possible impact of overton replacement said it all. The best they had on crane was "and he has played t20"

Bunch of jokers.
Part of the problem is a policy of not dropping or resting players. While Ali is in the side England will play him as a spinner if not THE spinner, limits chances for others to tours of subcontinent.

So when are players like Rashid going to get an extended chance? He was the obvious pick for the Ashes party, could easily have played against the West Indies, but made neither series in spite of taking a 4wi in FIVE of his
last six Tests.

Of course Moeen took four 4wi in consecutive Tests against South Africa so got the West Indies series, and since said South Africa series has taken just eight wickets all told in six Tests not including this.

Ironically if it's his batting England are looking to he has scored one fifty and a 40 since said series, 225 runs @ 22.50. Injured or nay, fit enough to bat or nay, he's in very ordinary form.
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Old 26th December 2017, 08:53   #46
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Hard to get any interest up for this...the documentary on Packer last night was far more watchable.
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Old 26th December 2017, 09:03   #47
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Part of the problem is a policy of not dropping or resting players. While Ali is in the side England will play him as a spinner if not THE spinner, limits chances for others to tours of subcontinent.

So when are players like Rashid going to get an extended chance? He was the obvious pick for the Ashes party, could easily have played against the West Indies, but made neither series in spite of taking a 4wi in FIVE of his
last six Tests.

Of course Moeen took four 4wi in consecutive Tests against South Africa so got the West Indies series, and since said South Africa series has taken just eight wickets all told in six Tests not including this.

Ironically if it's his batting England are looking to he has scored one fifty and a 40 since said series, 225 runs @ 22.50. Injured or nay, fit enough to bat or nay, he's in very ordinary form.
Which one of rashid's ten wickets in seven matches made him an obvious pick? Maybe they considered this wicket not making a strong enough case when you consider he went at 4.62 an over. Seriously, what made him the obvious pick?
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Old 26th December 2017, 09:04   #48
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You can cherry pick stats until the Ashes stay down under.

Moeen simply isn’t good enough and never will be.

England playing a man short.
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Old 26th December 2017, 09:15   #49
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You can cherry pick stats until the Ashes stay down under.

Moeen simply isn’t good enough and never will be.

England playing a man short....
....If you ignore that he has a very good man of the match and man of the series award ratio
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Old 26th December 2017, 09:45   #50
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Old 26th December 2017, 09:50   #51
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The selectors need to be sacked.

...

Bunch of jokers.

They’re completely anachronistic, Baylis should be handed sole control of selection and able to appoint his own scouts, then lives and does by the results. I can’t think of one quality Whittaker brings to the table.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:00   #52
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Day 1 isn't too bad for England. A batting collapse could see us bowl out Australia for less than 350 and then we go on to dominate the remainder of the test.

Or most likely Australia will rack up 600 and stuff us by an innings.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:01   #53
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Moeen has to be close to unselectable as a bowler for away tests. He is very handy at home but his only good away series in his entire career was v Bangladesh on raging turners. Only good batting series was against India. Seems with most players we have a view that being dropped means you’re not coming back in, rather than picking the best team for the conditions. Wouldn’t have taken Crane at all and he’s probably very glad he’s not playing on this pitch, in fairness. Sounds like he’s quite likely to come in next test though.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:05   #54
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How quick was Curran, btw? Looked to me as though he’d added a bit of pace this season to perhaps low-mid 80s but I’ve never seen him with a speed gun.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:13   #55
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Quote:
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Moeen has to be close to unselectable as a bowler for away tests. He is very handy at home but his only good away series in his entire career was v Bangladesh on raging turners. Only good batting series was against India. Seems with most players we have a view that being dropped means you’re not coming back in, rather than picking the best team for the conditions. Wouldn’t have taken Crane at all and he’s probably very glad he’s not playing on this pitch, in fairness. Sounds like he’s quite likely to come in next test though.
Yes, he is a poor bowler away from home but it certainly doesn’t help that he’s been asked to play through injury with no realistic alternative. Even if fully fit it would have been optimistic to say the least to have expected him to be a success with bat or ball though.
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How quick was Curran, btw? Looked to me as though he’d added a bit of pace this season to perhaps low-mid 80s but I’ve never seen him with a speed gun.
He has indeed over the last 18 months but is around lower 80s compared to high 70s. I only caught his last few overs when he bowled a lot of slower balls before the new ball.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:33   #56
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Moeen’s batting will be far more important than his bowling in this game.
Then what does that say about the quality of his bowling, as his batting has been rendered utterly impotent ?
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:39   #57
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Day 1 isn't too bad for England. A batting collapse could see us bowl out Australia for less than 350 and then we go on to dominate the remainder of the test.

You're then presuming England will be able to make more than 350 which is optimistic.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:40   #58
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....If you ignore that he has a very good man of the match and man of the series award ratio
He looks nailed on for worst player of this series.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:47   #59
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You're then presuming England will be able to make more than 350 which is optimistic.
You missed his last sentence.
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Old 26th December 2017, 11:02   #60
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Praise where its due at least the bowlers showed a modicum of fight out there. Pity it has to wait until their places are at risk before this happens though.

As for Ali playing when he's injured, total, total incompetence from the selectors. Even the near great Swann was ineffective down under when he wasn't fully fit. So we've learned nothing there....

Naturally the focus will be on our batsmen again soon. If they can't perform on this then they are totally doomed.
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