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Old 20th July 2016, 15:54   #1
CDogg16
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The Selectors

Seems like Bayliss is pushing for a new system to give him and Cook more power. Will be interesting to see if Newell, Whittaker or Fraser are kept on or if at the end of the summer changes will be made. It doesn't seem right that the trio could rule a player out through injury when the player in question, the coach and the captain all want him to play.
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Old 20th July 2016, 16:06   #2
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Could be Strauss decided without Bayliss saying much. Will it be one selection committee replaced to another? Strauss, Flower, Bayliss and captain? Or Strauss, Flower, Bayliss and Farbrace.

I would imagine that Fraser and Newell will carry on as coaches for their counties and Whitaker will be looking for a new job.
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Old 20th July 2016, 16:15   #3
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Could be Strauss decided without Bayliss saying much. Will it be one selection committee replaced to another? Strauss, Flower, Bayliss and captain? Or Strauss, Flower, Bayliss and Farbrace.

I would imagine that Fraser and Newell will carry on as coaches for their counties and Whitaker will be looking for a new job.
Looks like Bayliss wants a committee, which he will lead, but given his lack of knowledge of CC, I'm not sure that him telling the selectors who to scout would be the best way forward.

In any future arrangement, it would probably be best just to give the selectors one voice at a meeting so you can't have Fraser, Newell and Whittaker outvoting Cook and Bayliss. At the same time, should Cook or Morgan really be influential in selection? This wouldn't happen in any other sport, I don't think.
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Old 20th July 2016, 16:30   #4
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I've always felt that the coach should pick the team, with opinion from the skipper and a couple of guys who watch a lot of county cricket (scouts if you want to call them that.

So ideally we'd see Bayliss and Farbrace pick the squads asking Cook and 2 others (Collingwood and Trescothick would be great) for their views. Then Cook would pick final Xl.
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Old 20th July 2016, 16:49   #5
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Looks like Bayliss wants a committee, which he will lead, but given his lack of knowledge of CC, I'm not sure that him telling the selectors who to scout would be the best way forward.

In any future arrangement, it would probably be best just to give the selectors one voice at a meeting so you can't have Fraser, Newell and Whittaker outvoting Cook and Bayliss. At the same time, should Cook or Morgan really be influential in selection? This wouldn't happen in any other sport, I don't think.
We have enough of Whitaker, Fraser and Newell. Miller was a much better Chairman of Selectors. He would always say 'I give the coach and captain the squad they want'.

I would be wary of having Flower as a selector and even Bayliss. Soon we would have most of ODI players playing Tests. Strauss wants a difference between the squads. How do you work that one out?
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Old 20th July 2016, 17:22   #6
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Seems like Bayliss is pushing for a new system to give him and Cook more power. Will be interesting to see if Newell, Whittaker or Fraser are kept on or if at the end of the summer changes will be made. It doesn't seem right that the trio could rule a player out through injury when the player in question, the coach and the captain all want him to play.
Is it Bayliss pushing for this, or is it a power grab by Strauss?

Is it right that such decisions be taken by selectors on medical advice or just let the player declare himself?
Who takes the decision to rest players and manage their workload, when a player hasn't made it through a 4+ match series for 2 years?
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Old 20th July 2016, 17:30   #7
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I think that Strauss has more than enough power already. I'm not convinced that he's a good egg. Bayliss has little first hand knowledge of county cricket.
I used to see Geoff Miller doing the rounds and I've seen Whitaker quite a bit as well.
I'm reluctant to let a player have the final say in his fitness. We know that Hotpot doesn't like missing games but a less than 100% version is not an asset. It's not as if bowling is our weakest suit at the moment.
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Old 20th July 2016, 17:39   #8
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Great ska band.
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Old 20th July 2016, 18:54   #9
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Great ska band.
Whoever they pick, it's just the same old show on my radio ...

These selectors are pants though.
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Old 20th July 2016, 18:57   #10
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Great ska band.
First (pop) headliner I ever saw, back in '79.
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Old 20th July 2016, 18:58   #11
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I've always felt that the coach should pick the team, with opinion from the skipper and a couple of guys who watch a lot of county cricket (scouts if you want to call them that.

So ideally we'd see Bayliss and Farbrace pick the squads asking Cook and 2 others (Collingwood and Trescothick would be great) for their views. Then Cook would pick final Xl.
Totally agree with this, it works well in football, and it would provide clear lines of accountability.
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Old 20th July 2016, 19:04   #12
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Totally agree with this, it works well in football, and it would provide clear lines of accountability.
I'm not sure it works well in football. In England football, for example, it seems to ensure that the team are always rubbish and the coach always sacked. In this respect there's something about unclear lines of accountability that conduces to some kind of stability.
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Old 20th July 2016, 19:11   #13
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Bring back Miller.
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Old 20th July 2016, 19:21   #14
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The dispute allegedly leading to the alleged overhaul of the selectors was about regular test players and whether they needed longer recovery time from injury.

My view would be that there should be a selectorial team including scouts who would seek out potential new England players and monitor county performance of players who are or have been around the England squad.

Their views should be taken into consideration in selection meetings. But once a squad has been named, the team itself must left to coach and captain - which is in fact the current situation. What is clearly wrong is selectors deciding that players coming back from injury must be excluded from the squad. This is lèse-majesté. The coach and England medical team are the best people to decide on a player's inclusion within a day or two of the match, and the squads contain replacements in any case.
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Old 21st July 2016, 07:52   #15
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I'm not sure it works well in football. In England football, for example, it seems to ensure that the team are always rubbish and the coach always sacked. In this respect there's something about unclear lines of accountability that conduces to some kind of stability.
That's England though, the impossible job. It works very well for the successful sides like France, Germany, Italy etc, and at club football.

Unclear lines of accountability are always always always a recipe for disaster, and that applies to all forms of leadership.
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:29   #16
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That's England though, the impossible job. It works very well for the successful sides like France, Germany, Italy etc, and at club football.

Unclear lines of accountability are always always always a recipe for disaster, and that applies to all forms of leadership.
I suppose that clear lines of accountability allow you easily to pick someone to praise or blame. But whether that is an accurate account of who is responsible for good or bad performance is a rather different question. I suspect that in almost all cases the need to praise or blame someone distorts one's appreciation of the complex process that led to good or bad performance. It's always a judgement call for someone like Strauss to decide whether to sack players X and Y, or whether to sack the captain, or the coach, or some of the backroom staff, or whether to resign himself; and any one of those approaches is only going to solve the problem if it is a very simple problem indeed, which it probably isn't.
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Old 21st July 2016, 10:15   #17
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I never understood the whole selectors system, could you imagine someone telling Guardiola or Mourinho what players they will have in their team, it's such a ludicrous system.

The coach and the captain should be the ones who pick the team not a bunch of suits sitting high up in their ivory tower. Cricket needs to modernise, well England do at least.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about scouts, that's a fantastic idea, there should be a selection of scouts handpicked by the coach who's job it is to scour the county cricket scene for young English talent and producing dossiers for the coach to review. Like scouts do in football for managers (obv they don't just focus on English players in football).
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:39   #18
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Cricket is different to football - a coach could see a batsman once who gets an unplayable delivery first ball and that's the end of his career. Its not the same watching a poorly shot video as you never quite get a feeling for how quickly fast bowlers are bowling unless there is a speed gun on TV and one of the big adjustments at test level is bowlers tend to be 7 or 8 mph faster than bog standard county bowlers and that makes a big difference. Selectors and the coach need to work together but I think identifying and then picking the best players is too much for a coach, particularly with so much international cricket. Bayliss has said several times he has very limited knowledge of county cricket and identifying the best players coming through is a time consuming task.
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Old 21st July 2016, 13:13   #19
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Totally agree with this, it works well in football, and it would provide clear lines of accountability.
It works well in football because matches only last 90 minutes and all the top matches are televised.

Cricket is rather different.
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Old 21st July 2016, 13:25   #20
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The issue at stake is who has the casting vote, the coach or the chief selector.

In American sports, it is often the general manager, aka the Strauss figure, who assembles the squad and then the coach who picks the team and coaches them. Clearly it is better when the two are on the same page but just showing that the coach as paramount is not the only method used.
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