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Old 16th February 2010, 00:44   #81
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I was just trying to bring up the stats, i do have very limited knowledge on someone's writing about bradman but for sure i can say if the discussion going on here is mostly based on stats then why not include the one which i have pointed.

I still stand by my statement that he might have been great or a good player but that that does not in any way make him all time greatest player. Cricket has changed a lot over the period of time.



Its really good stuff and humor is a part of every sense and theme discussed, just it should not be the main if the theme discussed does not hold any point.



I would like to input my coding skills down here, just would doubt it would end up saying some weird error messages like Internet Explorer.



One of the best post.
Are we talking about the greatest player or batsman here. Sobers was the best all round player I have ever seen, but by no means the best in any of the disciplines of cricket (batting, bowling, fielding, captaincy). The greatest player, certainly in my lifetime, in my opinion, a player whose judgement I would respect, both on and off the field.
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Old 16th February 2010, 05:45   #82
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I think these regular digs at Bradman from a 'similar source' have a hint of jealousy in them. Some people hate to admit someone 'from the other side' is the best. Blimey, we are the old hated enemy and we have to admit he's the best; unless Grace comes into play but that gets too complex.
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Old 16th February 2010, 08:00   #83
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this chestnut needs a good roasting.
How we feel about Bradman is indicative of our own view of ourselves.
I like to subscribe to the anti-view - the one that states he was a callous manipulator of ''the game'' who played all his best cricket on shirtfronts - or against teams he largely picked. The one ruthless captain and ultra fast bowler whom he came up against made him look ordinary - human even. Everything he did, particularly against England post 33, was by way of an apology from us to him. A lot of us have been apologising ever since. We call it being 'fair' or having a 'balanced view' -(*vomits in bucket*) no other cricketing nation in the world comes close to the intellectualising of the concept of ''fairness'' I prefer to call it a symptom of a national malaise when we lose and an endearing glitch of in the national psyche when we win. But really - as has been demonstrated - we don't know how to win - (see ashes celebrations 05) we are deeply uncomfortable in that role.


So the Bradman debate . for me goes deeper. I prefer to think of him as a statistical anomaly - I freak of time and space - the man who proves the infinite typewriter and monkey theorem.

I also would forward the proposition that Archie Jackson - born in Scotland - was a better player and would have been the greatest of all time - had he lived.
Bradman shmadman.
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Old 16th February 2010, 13:54   #84
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Well that's one view anyway...
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Old 16th February 2010, 14:38   #85
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this chestnut needs a good roasting.
How we feel about Bradman is indicative of our own view of ourselves.
I like to subscribe to the anti-view - the one that states he was a callous manipulator of ''the game'' who played all his best cricket on shirtfronts - or against teams he largely picked. The one ruthless captain and ultra fast bowler whom he came up against made him look ordinary - human even. Everything he did, particularly against England post 33, was by way of an apology from us to him. A lot of us have been apologising ever since. We call it being 'fair' or having a 'balanced view' -(*vomits in bucket*) no other cricketing nation in the world comes close to the intellectualising of the concept of ''fairness'' I prefer to call it a symptom of a national malaise when we lose and an endearing glitch of in the national psyche when we win. But really - as has been demonstrated - we don't know how to win - (see ashes celebrations 05) we are deeply uncomfortable in that role.


So the Bradman debate . for me goes deeper. I prefer to think of him as a statistical anomaly - I freak of time and space - the man who proves the infinite typewriter and monkey theorem.

I also would forward the proposition that Archie Jackson - born in Scotland - was a better player and would have been the greatest of all time - had he lived.
Bradman shmadman.
His average in that 1932/33 series of 56.57 (by far his worst series) would still be good for 12th on the all-time list - 11th if you don't count him twice.
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:44   #86
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His average in that 1932/33 series of 56.57 (by far his worst series) would still be good for 12th on the all-time list - 11th if you don't count him twice.
And take the helmet off the current players and bowl bodyline and see how they do!
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:52   #87
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And take the helmet off the current players and bowl bodyline and see how they do!
None of the modern era players average that high.

The closest is Ponting (although he isn't of course good enough for the team of the last decade) back on 55.67.
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Old 16th February 2010, 15:55   #88
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None of the modern era players average that high.

The closest is Ponting (although he isn't of course good enough for the team of the last decade) back on 55.67.
Kind of proves a point then.

I still cant get my head around someone being nearly twice as good as everyone else playing at the same time not being acknowledged as the best when some Indian fans say Sachin is when it is debatable he is the best to have played cricket this week
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Old 16th February 2010, 16:04   #89
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For those who want to read a lilttle about the Don. Very interesting, especially with illness and reclusive nature.
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Old 16th February 2010, 17:46   #90
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Well that's one view anyway...
and your illumination would be .........!?
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Old 16th February 2010, 17:50   #91
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His average in that 1932/33 series of 56.57 (by far his worst series) would still be good for 12th on the all-time list - 11th if you don't count him twice.
good - but not - even by the wildest stetch of the imagination - brilliant - or indicictive of a talent to surpass all.
Just good.
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Old 16th February 2010, 18:22   #92
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With all this talk of better bowlers now or worse conditions then, leading to Tendulkar and Ponting getting more of a break, or some sentimental pity being afforded Bradman being for a different era, has it been posited that, if Bradman had grown up today, and had access to modern video, nutrition, coaching, fitness training and equipment, he might be just have been twice as good as even he was back then?

This thread doesn't even bear thinking about. Geez.

All the same, I'd choose 10 Garry Sobers over 10 Bradmans for my team any day. Eleven, even. I think Sobers could wicketkeep as well.
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Old 16th February 2010, 18:56   #93
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All the same, I'd choose 10 Garry Sobers over 10 Bradmans for my team any day. Eleven, even. I think Sobers could wicketkeep as well.
Bl00dy short sighted if you ask me. Who would carry the drinks?
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Old 16th February 2010, 19:18   #94
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and your illumination would be .........!?
my first post on this thread probably. number 10
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Old 16th February 2010, 19:32   #95
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This old nut comes up time and time again. Uncovered wickets and conditions then made it all the more remarkable. Bowling quality also has not improved like say fielding has. The fast bowlers then were just as fast. Also comparing era's is impossible. If the players of a different era were playing today they would adjust to conditions and play accordingly. On the whole if I was forced to compare I would say he would be even more dominant today.

hmmm.... you mean this?
seems like you've contradicted yourself ... I like my opinion better, but its an argument with no possible resolution - which is what you say before you say he'd be better than anyone. Should've stuck not twisted.
Statistical freak, political opportunist and a reasonably talented batsmen - against all but the best fast bowler who ever drew breath, who was given the full backing of a tactically astute captain, born 70 years ahead of his time.
To those who would rather applaud the shot than cut off the boundary I say ''you are the problem''.
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Old 16th February 2010, 19:40   #96
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Ah. Right. Wasn't prepared to read all the threads dating back to whenever, quite frankly. This discussion is b@llocks anyway. Are we that bored?
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Old 16th February 2010, 19:56   #97
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hmmm.... you mean this?
seems like you've contradicted yourself ... I like my opinion better, but its an argument with no possible resolution - which is what you say before you say he'd be better than anyone. Should've stuck not twisted.
Statistical freak, political opportunist and a reasonably talented batsmen - against all but the best fast bowler who ever drew breath, who was given the full backing of a tactically astute captain, born 70 years ahead of his time.
To those who would rather applaud the shot than cut off the boundary I say ''you are the problem''.
No I didn't..I said if I was forced to. That is not a contradiction. But I'm not arguing any more on behalf of a bleedin Aussie. His place is cemented anyway. As for M. Ali. ..boy was he annoying in his time but a legend almost beyond criticism now. Time does funny things.
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Old 16th February 2010, 21:17   #98
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Bradman made four tours of England in 1930,1934,1938 and 1948. He played a FULL first class season on each occasion and never averaged less than 84, topping the season averages on each occasion.

He was playing on UNCOVERED pitches against full strength county sides containing bowlers of the calibre of Hedley Verity (1956 wickets@14.90) and Tich Freeman (3776 wickets @ 18.43) playing 3 or 5 day matches.

Contrast that with a certain SR Tendulkar who has also made four tours of England and has a season best average of 71, against depleted attacks on fully COVERED pitches, playing 4 or 5 day cricket.

In Bradmans time a world class bowler would average under 20; In the current era it is under 25 per wicket. This can have three possible causes -the bowling is significantly weaker, the pitches are less helpful to bowlers or the batsman have inproved immeasurably. If any or all of these are true, why does no modern batsman average 100+ under these circumstances ?

Answer : Because they are not as good as Bradman !!
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Old 16th February 2010, 21:57   #99
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I think FS deserves a medal for his restrained posting on this thread (aka banging his head against a brick wall). I don't mind the debate about how the Don would fare today, but I can't treat any suggestion that he isn't the best cricketer ever with any degree of seriousness.
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Old 16th February 2010, 22:03   #100
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This is all we need to know - it isn't only his Test record - a first class average of over 95 over 28,000 runs is a bit special too!

Competition Tests FC
Matches 52 234
Runs scored 6,996 28,067
Batting average 99.94 95.14
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