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Old 19th September 2018, 14:32   #261
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Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
http://cricviz.com/2018/09/cricviz-a...d-bat-at-no-3/

So no one interested in Stokes batting at 3 then?

'England should be looking to mould Ben Stokes into Jacques Kallis, not into Andrew Flintoff '.
Heard some daft ideas but that one takes the biscuit. Perhaps that means they're considering it.
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Old 19th September 2018, 15:23   #262
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Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
http://cricviz.com/2018/09/cricviz-a...d-bat-at-no-3/

So no one interested in Stokes batting at 3 then?

'England should be looking to mould Ben Stokes into Jacques Kallis, not into Andrew Flintoff '.
Yes please. I think Stokes should be either promoted to 1, 2, or 3 on the basis that he's going to focus on his batting, or demoted to 8 on the basis that he's going to focus on his bowling. I don't like him hogging the no. 6 spot, as ideally we'd want that spot for the new batsman on the block. What happened to Pope (... let's pick him ... oh whoops, the only place we've got for him is one that's manifestly unsuitable ... oh well, let's drop him again then ...) shouldn't be able to happen again.

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... Perhaps Stokes should have been suspended all year, but otherwise I don't find this action by the ECB particularly surprising or inappropriate.
Nor me. I think Stokes and Hales have definitely brought the game into disrepute.
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Old 19th September 2018, 15:25   #263
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Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
Yes please. I think Stokes should be either promoted to 1, 2, or 3 on the basis that he's going to focus on his batting, or demoted to 8 on the basis that he's going to focus on his bowling. I don't like him hogging the no. 6 spot, as ideally we'd want that spot for the new batsman on the block. What happened to Pope (... let's pick him ... oh whoops, the only place we've got for him is one that's manifestly unsuitable ... oh well, let's drop him again then ...) shouldn't be able to happen again.

Nor me. I think Stokes and Hales have definitely brought the game into disrepute.
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Old 19th September 2018, 17:30   #264
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I think a general ticking off and considering missing the Ashes as time served will suit everyone.

If the ECB suspend him further (ie were going to regardless of outcome of the court case) then playing him this summer was madness
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Old 19th September 2018, 19:50   #265
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Presumably the ECB didn't want to (or were unable to) run a disciplinary hearing in parallel or before the criminal investigation, in case the former compromised the latter. Stokes was also not suspended for the Ashes, he was simply not selected.

Bringing the game into disrepute is clearly separate to a criminal charge, and will have a different burden of proof. Perhaps Stokes should have been suspended all year, but otherwise I don't find this action by the ECB particularly surprising or inappropriate.
That all seems exactly right to me, particularly the part about non-selection for the Ashes. That was a matter for the ECB and any legal action that may have been brought on the grounds of restraint of trade would have been laughed out of court.
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Old 19th September 2018, 20:25   #266
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That all seems exactly right to me, particularly the part about non-selection for the Ashes. That was a matter for the ECB and any legal action that may have been brought on the grounds of restraint of trade would have been laughed out of court.
So they didn't select him because they thought with all the media attention he'd be worse than Jake Ball?
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Old 19th September 2018, 22:44   #267
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I’ve just realised that the hearings won’t be until December (after the SL tour, hence they’re in the squads). What a farce.
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Old 19th September 2018, 22:48   #268
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If Stokes had been suspended pending the outcome of both the criminal and employer investigations, he would have missed two years of cricket. If exonerated on all counts that might have been an ugly legal situation for the ECB.

It has to be pointed out again that he wasn't suspended for the Ashes but he was very likely unpickabke.
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Old 19th September 2018, 23:26   #269
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I really don’t understand the difference between suspending him and not picking him (when he merited his place in the side and presumably was up for it - correct me if I’m wrong, please). Other than doubting his ability to play in Australia but I don’t see how the abuse he got would be much worse than the stuff Broad got after “not walking”, and you would figure Stokes would rather relish that kind of thing anyway.
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Old 20th September 2018, 01:30   #270
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That all seems exactly right to me, particularly the part about non-selection for the Ashes. That was a matter for the ECB and any legal action that may have been brought on the grounds of restraint of trade would have been laughed out of court.
How can it be restraint of trade when Stokes is on a central contract and was getting paid? I don't understand that at all. So if Broad is dropped from the Sri Lanka tour can he claim restraint of trade?
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Old 20th September 2018, 04:30   #271
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How can it be restraint of trade when Stokes is on a central contract and was getting paid? I don't understand that at all. So if Broad is dropped from the Sri Lanka tour can he claim restraint of trade?


Centrally contracted England players still have to be selected to play. They can be dropped on form, left out for tactical reasons or because of conditions for play, simply rested, or left out due to the need to look at someone different in their role etc. Itís unusual for batsmen and all-rounders to miss whole series, but if fast bowlers can be rested for whole tours without ever having acted in a manner likely to bring the game into disrepute itís hard to argue that Stokes missing an Ashes tour is restraint of trade.
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Old 20th September 2018, 12:01   #272
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So they didn't select him because they thought with all the media attention he'd be worse than Jake Ball?
Possibly. Who could say for certain?
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Old 20th September 2018, 12:03   #273
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How can it be restraint of trade when Stokes is on a central contract and was getting paid? I don't understand that at all. So if Broad is dropped from the Sri Lanka tour can he claim restraint of trade?
Exactly and no, of course he couldn't.
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Old 20th September 2018, 12:08   #274
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How can it be restraint of trade when Stokes is on a central contract and was getting paid? I don't understand that at all. So if Broad is dropped from the Sri Lanka tour can he claim restraint of trade?
Because it affects his sponsorships, bonuses, future earnings etc. Employers can't just put people on garden leave indefinitely, particularly without a hearing to explain their side of the story.
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Old 21st September 2018, 09:35   #275
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Because it affects his sponsorships, bonuses, future earnings etc. Employers can't just put people on garden leave indefinitely, particularly without a hearing to explain their side of the story.
Presumably itís more the threat of this from his representatives than the actual prospect of Stokes suing the ECB thatís worrying them.

Agree with Stokes being tried at 3. Makes more sense than Ali there both on their batting and their bowling.
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