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Old 14th August 2018, 14:44   #2361
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Originally Posted by The Hanging Monkey View Post
Yes that's probably fair comment. I live miles away so I've only ever driven there. Is it that hard to access via public transport?
Not hard, but not convenient. I looked into it and did it when when I went there. Trains are sporadic - for example, there is a departure from Newcastle at 11.18 and the next one is at 13.00. There are buses from both Newcastle and Durham. Buses from Newcastle, but it's a 45-minute trip and they're only half-hourly back at night.

The club do encourage people to come without cars, with shuttle buses to Durham on match days.

It is what it is. It's easy to see why London clubs find it easier to fill grounds for T20s, but T20 didn't exist when the ground was planned and built, and there wasn't expected to be night-time cricket as a local social night out.
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Old 14th August 2018, 14:47   #2362
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She is talking the game down if she can't imagine a game of cricket between two sides being so compelling without the existing names and long serving players. If that's what makes cricket special logic would suggest that without it cricket would perish. Personally I think cricket is a fantastic sport and will still shine through without these. That isn't what makes cricket brilliant. What makes it brilliant is the contest between bat and ball. I've seen lousy contests between Yorks and Lancs despite all their history behind them. I've seen some compelling matches between Big Bash franchises because of the cricket, not because of their names. Plus cricket support isn't as tribal. You clap opposing team players when they reach their hundreds and don't jeer their failures.

Afghanistan doesn't have much in the way of cricketing history and I didn't know their players but their success over the last few years has been compelling. They are a brilliant addition to international cricket.

Equating my username with a professional sports team is just weird. I don't want people to follow me. That's why I don't use my actual name. It would be a terrible marketing strategy and off-putting to new fans which it would be trying to attract.

There are certainly flaws with the Hundred but the attacks on it seem to be more concerned with preserving the status quo than growing the game. I at times wonder if people actually want cricket to become popular or if it would spoil their enjoyment of it if they had to queue to get in? Cricket is only achieving a fraction of its potential but people seem too entrenched in the status quo to want to grow the game.

Yes, of course I want cricket to be popular (as I'm sure does Ms Ammon).

But I have yet to see a single convincing argument in favour of the hitn'giggle 100 competition that hasn't left me convinced it's not a plot to totally destroy the game I love, or simply such monumental incompetence that their attempt to change the game will simply torpedo it.

If you think 'cricket is only achieving a fraction of its potential' now, then pray those words don't come back to haunt you when the game is damaged even more as a result of this attempt to destroy its current structure.

Just remember, these are the fools who thought ending 'free to view' live cricket on TV would make the game more popular. It didn't. And neither will the ECB's new nonsense.
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Old 14th August 2018, 15:25   #2363
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...the attacks on it seem to be more concerned with preserving the status quo than growing the game. I at times wonder if people actually want cricket to become popular or if it would spoil their enjoyment of it if they had to queue to get in? Cricket is only achieving a fraction of its potential but people seem too entrenched in the status quo to want to grow the game.
I don't see how the Hundred is going to do that. How exactly is it going to "grow the game"?

The matches will be played in cities where there is already an abundance of cricket to watch - i.e. the international grounds at the clubs that get the biggest T20 crowds. So why do these need even more matches?

"Grow" is an appropriate word, because to grow something it needs roots. The game is already top heavy, as it so largely revolves around "Team England".

I don't see how someone in Colchester or Southend is going to get into cricket through The Hundred. The targeted "mums" are not going to take their kids from there to The Oval because The Hundred has been created. But they might take them down to the local grounds if something is on offer. And are these "mums" really going to start watching the games on TV?

It is TV on which a lot of the hopes are being staked. I am just not sure how someone who doesn't watch cricket is suddenly going to get into it because it's on TV. The Hundred and terrestrial TV and its effect on "growing the game" is the big unknown.

Meanwhile, when anything at domestic level succeeds, the ECB just cannot leave it alone to let it grow. The Blast has been a great success, with increasing crowds, especially since moving to a high summer slot. But from 2020 it will be moved back to a much more spectator-unfriendly slot, especially for the earliest matches. Likewise, The Kia Super League has proved a huge shot in the arm for women's cricket. Just as people are getting into it, the ECB's response is to scrap it from 2020.

So there is no "status quo" to preserve. Because the bloody fixture list's structure and competition formats are meddled with and changed nearly every year.
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Old 14th August 2018, 15:54   #2364
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I don't see how the Hundred is going to do that. How exactly is it going to "grow the game"?

The matches will be played in cities where there is already an abundance of cricket to watch - i.e. the international grounds at the clubs that get the biggest T20 crowds. So why do these need even more matches?

"Grow" is an appropriate word, because to grow something it needs roots. The game is already top heavy, as it so largely revolves around "Team England".

I don't see how someone in Colchester or Southend is going to get into cricket through The Hundred. The targeted "mums" are not going to take their kids from there to The Oval because The Hundred has been created. But they might take them down to the local grounds if something is on offer. And are these "mums" really going to start watching the games on TV?

It is TV on which a lot of the hopes are being staked. I am just not sure how someone who doesn't watch cricket is suddenly going to get into it because it's on TV. The Hundred and terrestrial TV and its effect on "growing the game" is the big unknown.

Meanwhile, when anything at domestic level succeeds, the ECB just cannot leave it alone to let it grow. The Blast has been a great success, with increasing crowds, especially since moving to a high summer slot. But from 2020 it will be moved back to a much more spectator-unfriendly slot, especially for the earliest matches. Likewise, The Kia Super League has proved a huge shot in the arm for women's cricket. Just as people are getting into it, the ECB's response is to scrap it from 2020.

So there is no "status quo" to preserve. Because the bloody fixture list's structure and competition formats are meddled with and changed nearly every year.
Excellent post. Completely agree.

Surely getting mums to pop to the local ground is easier. Just market the blast properly.
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Old 14th August 2018, 16:45   #2365
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Good to see the above posts from Paulsre and Sir Virgs.
Maybe they could be audio recorded and played continuously to the sleeping buffoons who dreamt up the Hundred, until they relent.
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Old 14th August 2018, 18:32   #2366
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Yes that's probably fair comment. I live miles away so I've only ever driven there. Is it that hard to access via public transport?
As someone from way down south who doesn't drive I didn't find it that bad, pretty typical for a newer sporting venue, it's a lot easier than say the Rose/Ageas Bowl which is my "local" ground.

I'm guessing that the main issue would be for T20 where casual cricket fans don't mind travelling 15mins on a whim but don't want to go all the way from Newcastle or Sunderland.
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Old 14th August 2018, 18:54   #2367
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As someone from way down south who doesn't drive I didn't find it that bad, pretty typical for a newer sporting venue, it's a lot easier than say the Rose/Ageas Bowl which is my "local" ground.

I'm guessing that the main issue would be for T20 where casual cricket fans don't mind travelling 15mins on a whim but don't want to go all the way from Newcastle or Sunderland.
A quick look on google maps suggests Newcastle is 13 miles away, and Sunderland 12. Probably easier to get there than from north London to the Oval...
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Old 14th August 2018, 19:05   #2368
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A quick look on google maps suggests Newcastle is 13 miles away, and Sunderland 12. Probably easier to get there than from north London to the Oval...
I'm not a local so I really have no idea what driving is like from the main population centres to the ground, like I say it was just a guess.

The Oval with its proximity to Clapham Junction and the Victoria line is probably the best served ground in the country by public transport.
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Old 14th August 2018, 19:11   #2369
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I'm not a local so I really have no idea what driving is like from the main population centres to the ground, like I say it was just a guess.

The Oval with its proximity to Clapham Junction and the Victoria line is probably the best served ground in the country by public transport.

I don't live in the north east either, but my son does, and says it is possible to get there by public transport (though driving is easier).

Ii do know London, and getting across London is fine except when there are works, or some sort of incident.

FWIW I happily drive 20 or so miles to Canterbury for a T20, but wouldn't go to (say) Beckenham (80 miles)
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Old Yesterday, 11:53   #2370
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I'm not a local so I really have no idea what driving is like from the main population centres to the ground, like I say it was just a guess.

The Oval with its proximity to Clapham Junction and the Victoria line is probably the best served ground in the country by public transport.
Yes it is. Not only that, but Oval station right outside the ground, plus a bus stop with many services. Then as you say Victoria Line at Vauxhall, just a few minutes' walk away, plus its rail station served by a train every 2 minutes.

Not only that, but within easy reach of endless pubs, restaurants, etc.
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Old Yesterday, 12:27   #2371
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I've only just seen this, don't know if there was any announcement. But in 2019, according to the ECB site:

Royal London Cup final, Saturday 25 May, Lord's

T20 Blast Finals Day, Saturday 21 September, Edgbaston

I knew moves were afoot to retain the Blast at Edgbaston. but I thought the 50 over cup was moving to Trent Bridge. Maybe that is from 2020?

With the 50 over cup final so early, obviously they'll have to get the groups, play-offs and semis done by around Monday 13 May. This year that took around 4 and a half weeks to do - exactly 3 weeks for the groups, then 5 days for the play-off and semis, with necessary gaps.

That suggests the competition will have to begin some time around Thursday 11 April.

So surely no Championship cricket until it starts (which will please many) presumably at the end of May, running uninterrupted until mid-July, with the Blast starting around Wednesday 18 July.

Where that leaves the opening university games is anyone's guess, as playing 3 days of red ball cricket would not be ideal preparation for the counties ahead of white-ball cricket. But as I can't see there being room for them later, presumably they will just go ahead as normal, unless they ask the MCCUs to play 50 over matches instead as a one-off for 2019.
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Old Yesterday, 19:18   #2372
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I don't see how the Hundred is going to do that. How exactly is it going to "grow the game"?

The matches will be played in cities where there is already an abundance of cricket to watch - i.e. the international grounds at the clubs that get the biggest T20 crowds. So why do these need even more matches?

"Grow" is an appropriate word, because to grow something it needs roots. The game is already top heavy, as it so largely revolves around "Team England".

I don't see how someone in Colchester or Southend is going to get into cricket through The Hundred. The targeted "mums" are not going to take their kids from there to The Oval because The Hundred has been created. But they might take them down to the local grounds if something is on offer. And are these "mums" really going to start watching the games on TV?

It is TV on which a lot of the hopes are being staked. I am just not sure how someone who doesn't watch cricket is suddenly going to get into it because it's on TV. The Hundred and terrestrial TV and its effect on "growing the game" is the big unknown.

Meanwhile, when anything at domestic level succeeds, the ECB just cannot leave it alone to let it grow. The Blast has been a great success, with increasing crowds, especially since moving to a high summer slot. But from 2020 it will be moved back to a much more spectator-unfriendly slot, especially for the earliest matches. Likewise, The Kia Super League has proved a huge shot in the arm for women's cricket. Just as people are getting into it, the ECB's response is to scrap it from 2020.

So there is no "status quo" to preserve. Because the bloody fixture list's structure and competition formats are meddled with and changed nearly every year.
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Excellent post. Completely agree.

Surely getting mums to pop to the local ground is easier. Just market the blast properly.
How does this help Paul's example of mums in Southend and Colchester?

They have no county cricket at their local ground unless you are proposing they go to watch 2nd XI cricket. That's surely a bit too niche for an introduction to the sport?

Even if they wanted to go to Chelmsford (taking 3 trains if you wanted to do it by public transport, as opposed to one train and a tube in less time if you wanted to go to the Oval/Lord's) the capacity at Chelmsford is so low (just 6,500) that you'd struggle to get tickets.

And this is within the county. What about people who live in Berkshire, Cornwall, Staffordshire, Suffolk etc who don't have a county?

That's why TV has to form a major part of the strategy (TV highlight clips will also drive social media) and the current format is too unwieldy to attract broadcasters, other than a specialist cricket channel.

The Kia Super League seems to be along the right lines (I think the ECB have ****ed up this element by planning to abolish it) but note it is 6 teams.

You'd want to start something like this with 6-8 teams. That would ensure talent isn't spread too thin and new spectators can quickly get to know the new teams - how many people can name 18 cricketers?

Mums is only one part of the equation. The biggest demographic not engaged with the domestic game is the British-Asian population. Cricket is already huge in this sector but that isn't converted into support for the domestic game. The IPL, the Pakistan Super League, the Bangladeshi Premier League - we know the franchising format works in Asia, so why not try it here to engage the demographic that is probably most fanatical about cricket yet are woefully under-represented in domestic crowds?

I agree the game is top heavy. There are roots with the national team but this hasn't filtered down to county cricket. County cricket has had years to try and put this right and they have failed to do so. County cricket's profile has been shrinking before our eyes no matter how many times the likes of George Dobell or Lizzy Ammon tweet about the premier domestic competition doing so well because somewhere managed to sell out an 8,000 capacity ground.

A franchise competition done well would provide a stepping stone between the international game and the county game. It would have a high media profile and help create stars/profile which can then help sell the county game.

I'm a cricket fan but I have to actively search out cricket outside of international cricket. If I want to read a match report on a domestic game I can no longer do that by picking up a national newspaper but I have to go a specialist cricket site. My home town newspaper doesn't even bother reporting on the county any more. If I want to see highlights I can no longer catch them on local or national news. If I want to watch a match I need a specialist cricket channel. Cricket is no longer something that you can stumble across but something you have to actively go out and seek. This is what needs to change and the new competition is the vehicle for this.

The Blast just doesn't have enough of an appeal to break into the public consciousness. Some counties have done well locally (Surrey, in particular) but outside of tests there's no buzz. I find it far easier to find people interested in discussing my third tier football side than I do people who are interested to talk about my first tier cricket side. If at work I stick the test match on the TV people will pop their heads in and watch. When I put a domestic game on people have no interest. That use to be the case in India and Australia as well but the Bash and the IPL solved that and have increased the profile of cricket outside of international cricket.

English Cricket therefore needs a new domestic competition, one that will raise the profile of cricket outside of test matches, one that will pay for ground improvements, increase capacities and in the future pay for roofs. That's not going to be the Hundred in the way the ECB are currently proposing it, but it can be something similar to the Hundred if they sort the details out.

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A quick look on google maps suggests Newcastle is 13 miles away, and Sunderland 12. Probably easier to get there than from north London to the Oval...
It's super easy to get to the Oval from North London. Public transport is frequent (every 2-6 minutes) and drops you off outside. You don't have to worry about parking, traffic, you can even have a glass of wine in the sunshine without worrying how you'll get home.
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Old Yesterday, 19:45   #2373
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It's super easy to get to the Oval from North London. Public transport is frequent (every 2-6 minutes) and drops you off outside. You don't have to worry about parking, traffic, you can even have a glass of wine in the sunshine without worrying how you'll get home.
Certainly easier than the Home of Cricket since Lord's Underground Station was closed. Those bloody Nazis again.

The Oval has always been my default ground if Kent/Essex have been away. 40 minutes from my home town of Orpington, Kent and about 50 mins from Barkingside, Essex. It also made it so easy when I used to take a half-day holiday from work in London, to see two-thirds of a day's cricket.
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Old Yesterday, 22:57   #2374
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People have scoffed at the ECB wanting to attract mums, families etc to watch The Hundred, but the Blast has, unfortunately, now marketed itself as an evening social event for professionals wanting to knock back the booze, particularly at the bigger grounds. This is characterised by Bumble's cringeworthy conducting of the Hollies stand every finals day.

Having been to a few after work games at the Oval and Lords since moving to London, I wouldn't take a kid, and that's before considering the late finishes on school nights. A new tournament should look to have more afternoon and weekend games in the school hols accessible to families.
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Old Today, 06:13   #2375
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Having been to a few after work games at the Oval and Lords since moving to London, I wouldn't take a kid, and that's before considering the late finishes on school nights. A new tournament should look to have more afternoon and weekend games in the school hols accessible to families.
This is one of the reasons why the John Player League was so successful. Although it did provide a welcome way for boozy blokes to get around the licensing laws, it was also a safe environment for families. The one caveat being that, during the interval games on the outfield, Mums had to keep wicket and Dads could bowl but not bat!
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Old Today, 07:44   #2376
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This is one of the reasons why the John Player League was so successful. Although it did provide a welcome way for boozy blokes to get around the licensing laws, it was also a safe environment for families. The one caveat being that, during the interval games on the outfield, Mums had to keep wicket and Dads could bowl but not bat!
There were also free cigarettes given out.
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Old Today, 11:14   #2377
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That's why TV has to form a major part of the strategy (TV highlight clips will also drive social media) and the current format is too unwieldy to attract broadcasters, other than a specialist cricket channel.

You'd want to start something like this with 6-8 teams. That would ensure talent isn't spread too thin and new spectators can quickly get to know the new teams - how many people can name 18 cricketers?

Mums is only one part of the equation. The biggest demographic not engaged with the domestic game is the British-Asian population. Cricket is already huge in this sector but that isn't converted into support for the domestic game. The IPL, the Pakistan Super League, the Bangladeshi Premier League - we know the franchising format works in Asia, so why not try it here to engage the demographic that is probably most fanatical about cricket yet are woefully under-represented in domestic crowds?

I agree the game is top heavy. There are roots with the national team but this hasn't filtered down to county cricket. County cricket has had years to try and put this right and they have failed to do so. County cricket's profile has been shrinking before our eyes no matter how many times the likes of George Dobell or Lizzy Ammon tweet about the premier domestic competition doing so well because somewhere managed to sell out an 8,000 capacity ground.

A franchise competition done well would provide a stepping stone between the international game and the county game. It would have a high media profile and help create stars/profile which can then help sell the county game.

I'm a cricket fan but I have to actively search out cricket outside of international cricket. If I want to read a match report on a domestic game I can no longer do that by picking up a national newspaper but I have to go a specialist cricket site. My home town newspaper doesn't even bother reporting on the county any more. If I want to see highlights I can no longer catch them on local or national news. If I want to watch a match I need a specialist cricket channel. Cricket is no longer something that you can stumble across but something you have to actively go out and seek. This is what needs to change and the new competition is the vehicle for this.

The Blast just doesn't have enough of an appeal to break into the public consciousness. Some counties have done well locally (Surrey, in particular) but outside of tests there's no buzz. I find it far easier to find people interested in discussing my third tier football side than I do people who are interested to talk about my first tier cricket side. If at work I stick the test match on the TV people will pop their heads in and watch. When I put a domestic game on people have no interest. That use to be the case in India and Australia as well but the Bash and the IPL solved that and have increased the profile of cricket outside of international cricket.

English Cricket therefore needs a new domestic competition, one that will raise the profile of cricket outside of test matches, one that will pay for ground improvements, increase capacities and in the future pay for roofs. That's not going to be the Hundred in the way the ECB are currently proposing it, but it can be something similar to the Hundred if they sort the details out.
Here you've made by far the most robust argument/reasoning for the new tournament that I've read anywhere.

With the TV deal made and promise of the money to the counties, it seems set to go ahead in some form or other, so only time will tell if it succeeds.

I would be interested to know, though, how you feel about the likely set-up from 2020 with regard to the development of red-ball cricketers? With the Blast likely to have to start around May 20, many of those those players selected for the new competition may well be only playing T20/Hundred cricket from then until late August.

Surely this will lead to some of the brightest talents simply not devloping as red-ball cricketers, or if they do, playing it with an embedded T20 mindset?

We are already seeing this with the likes of players such as Ed Pollock, who has not played a first-class game since appearing for Durham MCCU in April 2017. We might never know how good a red-ball cricketer he may have been, as if he makes selection for the Hundred, he may never/very rarely play red ball cricket again.
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Old Today, 11:59   #2378
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Here you've made by far the most robust argument/reasoning for the new tournament that I've read anywhere.

With the TV deal made and promise of the money to the counties, it seems set to go ahead in some form or other, so only time will tell if it succeeds.

I would be interested to know, though, how you feel about the likely set-up from 2020 with regard to the development of red-ball cricketers? With the Blast likely to have to start around May 20, many of those those players selected for the new competition may well be only playing T20/Hundred cricket from then until late August.

Surely this will lead to some of the brightest talents simply not devloping as red-ball cricketers, or if they do, playing it with an embedded T20 mindset?

We are already seeing this with the likes of players such as Ed Pollock, who has not played a first-class game since appearing for Durham MCCU in April 2017. We might never know how good a red-ball cricketer he may have been, as if he makes selection for the Hundred, he may never/very rarely play red ball cricket again.
I still don't have a full answer to scheduling - this is as much an issue at international level as domestic level and is already an issue before the franchise competition is introduced.

There's a possibility it may help, as I would continue to play first class cricket during the Franchise Competition - this incidentally would be an ideal time to play at outgrounds in my opinion. This would open up more opportunities to young players and I think boost the MCCUs by encouraging university as a pathway for young cricketers - they could play for their unis during term time and then places open up during the summer break when county players are called up by franchises. As such I think (although we can't be sure) Ed Pollock would have got a county fc debut whilst still at uni and so we would have had a better idea of his red ball capabilities.

I would suggest that one of the strengths of Australian cricket has been paradoxically how often the states play weakened teams due to international call-ups. It helps create lots of opportunities for young players to step up. They then either take their chance or return to the level below and improve that level with the experience they gained.

As you say, this is already an issue. The neatest solution would be to kill off 50 over cricket and play just test/fc and T20 but with the popularity of ODIs in India I don't see this as an option unless India have a couple of really bad ODI world cups but really good T20 World Cups.
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Old Today, 14:49   #2379
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Another relevant & interesting Tweet from Lizzie Ammon:

https://twitter.com/legsidelizzy/status/1030086859458863105
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