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#981 |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,984
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It's shouldn't be called experimentation to pick the best batsmen and bowlers, though your choice of words is understandable. Rashid should have played every test since last year's India tour, in place of first Dawson and then the inevitably surplus fourth seamer. Moeen should have played as a top six batsman, though he'd probably have been dropped for some other batsman by now.
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#982 | |
County Pro
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 689
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Quote:
It's not rocket science.
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![]() I can accept failure...I can not accept not trying again.
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#983 |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Sussex
Team(s): Sussex, England
Posts: 11,158
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We played four quicks plus Moeen and Dawson at the start of the summer. Rashid could easily have fit in that team instead of Dawson, so it's not like an experiment that they weren't willing to try.
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She was like a candle in the wind...Unreliable |
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#984 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 28,586
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Quote:
Because Rashid isn't one of England's top 10 bowlers. He may though be one of England's top 2 spin bowlers.
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#985 |
County Pro
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 689
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How many active England bowlers have 490 FC wickets?
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![]() I can accept failure...I can not accept not trying again.
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#986 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,984
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Quote:
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#987 | |
International Material
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Exeter
Posts: 1,481
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Quote:
Which of our four seamers over the summer did you deem surplus, out of interest? Woakes in his one test didn't perform but you'd be hard pressed to make an especially compelling argument against the inclusion of Roland-Jones even with hindsight. Stokes was the fourth seamer in terms of workload and I think most would agree in terms of quality, too, and I don't think too many people were calling for Broad to be left out for Rashid in the SA series. I said before the start of the summer I would have given Rashid a shot, and probably for longer than it has taken most people to write off Dawson's test chances. Other than as a direct alternative for Dawson - and maybe in place of Woakes when he was clearly unfit and selected, although I believe TRJ was also fit for that game and just wrongly dropped - I don't see where there was a gaping hole in the side that Rashid would have filled. As it is, it seems his main use is as a discussion point here where he has contracted Mark Wood levels of godlike ability through inaction to an ardent band of followers. As for his 500 FC wickets meaning he deserves selection, on that basis Moeen should be ahead of Crane for another good few years. |
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#988 | |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,984
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Quote:
As for the seamers, obviously if you decide to play the weaker spinner you're going to need more from the seamers. I think England have been playing Moeen and Stokes as half a bowler each, and in Moeen's case that's because he's a very limited bowler, but in Stokes's case I don't think it is -- rather, it's because he's been batting very well in the top six and that's a more prestigious role. I think he can develop as a bowler -- for example, I think England have missed his bowling enormously this winter -- and I think he's certainly good enough to be the third and last seamer on many pitches, were we to pick our best spinner. Let's face it, most test pitches are rubbish for seam bowling. Obviously, though, if you try to draw evidence just from matches where we didn't pick our best spinner and we had three specialist seamers and Stokes batted at six, he's not going to bowl that much and so is unlikely to shine unless everyone else has failed first. Broad also was ineffective for much of the summer, and I think it's not quite right to try to dismiss the alternative by saying you wouldn't have dropped him for Rashid. In the end I think our bowling attack could look very different were we always to begin by picking our best available spinner on bowling merits alone, and it's hard to argue for incremental improvements when all recent evidence is based on the opposite principle. Perhaps we could put it like this: I think the groundhog day of England having four seamers and a crap batting unit for season after season is closely related to their decision, some four years ago, as a matter of selectorial ideology, to prioritize Moeen over any and all other spinners. Under normal circumstances a team with five bowlers that regularly loses matches because of not scoring enough runs would be able to try playing just four bowlers sometimes. But that's impossible if Moeen has to be sole spinner. The nadir of the Ali plan was reached when Stokes became unavailable and we had to replace him with a seam bowler. Obviously we did OK last summer against a surprisingly poor SA side and a predictably poor WI side. But the decision was made once more, and once more unnecessarily, to come into another crucial winter having made no real attempt to develop any better spin option than Ali. And I think we can now say that despite having had a few good tests with the ball last summer, Ali is still, despite all the experience and opportunity, a massively underwhelming test bowler. Who would have expected otherwise? As for the 500 wickets point, you're talking to the wrong chap -- I never said that, and I don't care about it. |
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#989 |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,352
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#990 | |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock McTuffnel v3 View Post His bowling average is on the cusp of being over 40. By year 2014 : 28.09 2015 : 39.94 2016 : 123 2017 : 31.36 2018 : 85 By season 2014 : 28.09 2015 : 43.65 2015/16 : 48.57 2016 : 52.23 2016/17 : 42.0 2017 : 21.30 2017/18 : 115 Bowling average vs our upcoming opponents : NZ : 50 Pak : 47.50 India : 37.44 Sri Lanka : 72.20 Perhaps a case to be made for him as a specialist Saffer slayer ?
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#991 |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,352
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#992 |
Legendary
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 9,797
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'struth, I checked and that prediction was from the back end of August last year.
I never felt I was really sticking my neck out, though. |
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#993 |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,352
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#994 |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,984
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Nice interview with him in the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-ipl-interview |
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#995 | |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,352
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Quote:
.... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/...not-a-batsman/ ![]()
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#996 |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,485
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But still been a better option for the team than the other specialist spinners. Off we go again...
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#997 |
Posting God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Team(s): Arkholme Bees, Hackney Grasshoppers, Holy Cross Academicals
Posts: 10,984
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Off you go again, maybe. I don't think it'll be possible properly to assess how we would have got on without Moeen in the team in recent years. Maybe we'll find out if he stays out of the team for a while. But maybe not.
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#998 | |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,352
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Quote:
Our ICC test ranking would beg to differ. We are 5th and falling.
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#999 |
Posting God
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,485
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#1000 |
World Class
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 7,352
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Yes - unfortunately the test rankings are based on consistent performances over time - not one off boot filling on a snakepit.
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