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Old 15th January 2018, 15:43   #161
AJ101
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Originally Posted by Sir Coolerking View Post

Other than the fella he hit, was anyone else likely to fear for their safety?
Well that's kind of the point isn't it and in any case the way he was swinging to answer your question, yes.

Whatever the charge the only legal defence I can see as a layman for Stokes would be making a case of self defence which from the footage looks unlikely to sway magistrates or a jury.

I'd imagine there's a good chance he'll plead guilty as the charge is affray rather than ABH because as you say a court case dragging on isn't good for his career whilst I don't see a massive difference if he pleads guilty vs being found not guilty unless he gets a suspended sentence and then does it again!
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Old 15th January 2018, 17:23   #162
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So what does this all mean then ? Is this good or bad news for Mr Stokes ?
Given that once the video emerged it was 100 per cent inevitable that he would be charged, then it is good news for him that the charge is affray rather than ABH/GBH -providing he pleads guilty.

Instead he's blathering on about being grateful for a chance to clear his name.

That the bloke whose eye-socket he broke is charged with the same offence suggests the CPS and police are taking a 'six of one and half a dozen of the other' approach.

Affray still carries up to a 5 year prison sentence but if they all plead guilty, Stokes shows some contrition in court, says it was a case of handbags that got out of hand and apologises, they will be heavily fined, may be with a community service order and nobody will go to prison.

If Stokes pleads innocent, though, and is then found guilty, the sentence will be more severe.

Let's hope his barrister can talk some sense in to him, get him to take his medicine and admit his guilt and then he can get back to playing cricket.
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Old 15th January 2018, 17:35   #163
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Affray still carries up to a 5 year prison sentence
I thought it was a 3 year maximum for affray and 5 years for violent disorder?
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Old 15th January 2018, 17:52   #164
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Old 15th January 2018, 17:55   #165
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Ben Stokes has been charged with affray following incident in September and will appear before Bristol Magistratesí Court at a later date
Which is good news for Stokes surely? "Affray" means he got into a fight, a street brawl. The other protagonists have also been charged. ABH, which was the charge mooted, is far more serious. That is an intent to wound. The fact that it has taken 3 months for the police and CPS to come up with this decision shows massive incompetence on their part. As someone who has also had this charge levelled against them, I sympathize.

We are of course, instructed not to make any comments prejudicial to the case. Millions have seen it and will form their own opinion. My own opinion is that the police should be charged with wasting police time. The matter should have been dealt with the next day by the local magistrates. Night in the cells, £100 fine all round and let's get on with it. The fact that he is a well known "personality" should never have entered into it. He's a f****** idiot of course, but even idiots are regarded the sane under the law.
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Old 15th January 2018, 18:03   #166
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I thought it was a 3 year maximum for affray and 5 years for violent disorder?
Depends on which court.

It's going to Bristol magistates court initially, where I think they can only impose a six month sentence.

But if it's passed up to the crown court, longer sentences are available.

He really, really needs to shut up with the self-righteous 'clear my name' nonsense and just say 'guilty, your honour'. He will get a lesser sentence and will be able to get back to playing cricket all the sooner.

I'd guess the time frame is that it's highly likely to go to trial during the IPL, which is going to cost him a packet in lost earnings...
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Old 15th January 2018, 18:05   #167
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Well that's kind of the point isn't it and in any case the way he was swinging to answer your question, yes.

Whatever the charge the only legal defence I can see as a layman for Stokes would be making a case of self defence which from the footage looks unlikely to sway magistrates or a jury.

I'd imagine there's a good chance he'll plead guilty as the charge is affray rather than ABH because as you say a court case dragging on isn't good for his career whilst I don't see a massive difference if he pleads guilty vs being found not guilty unless he gets a suspended sentence and then does it again!
Sorry but if someone walks towards me aggressively with a bottle in their hand, it is wise to get your retaliation in first.
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Old 15th January 2018, 18:13   #168
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Depends on which court.

It's going to Bristol magistates court initially, where I think they can only impose a six month sentence.

But if it's passed up to the crown court, longer sentences are available.
Sure I know magistrates is 6 months but I thought Crown was 3 years, not that is really matters I don't see how/why they'd apply the maximum even if he plead not guilty.

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Sorry but if someone walks towards me aggressively with a bottle in their hand, it is wise to get your retaliation in first.
Yeah I'm of the same view but I imagine my/our view is likely to be different than the one taken by magistrates or your average jury and I was referring to the second part of the incident doesn't involve a bottle and I guess that part of the incident is why he's being charged.
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Old 15th January 2018, 18:15   #169
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Should have played in the Ashes
Once the tape came out that was never an option.

It would be great if we just went to an Ashes series in Oz with all our big guns fit and firing though. I'm thinking Tres and Trott (amongst others) here.
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Old 15th January 2018, 18:19   #170
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Depends on which court.

It's going to Bristol magistates court initially, where I think they can only impose a six month sentence.

But if it's passed up to the crown court, longer sentences are available.

He really, really needs to shut up with the self-righteous 'clear my name' nonsense and just say 'guilty, your honour'. He will get a lesser sentence and will be able to get back to playing cricket all the sooner.

I'd guess the time frame is that it's highly likely to go to trial during the IPL, which is going to cost him a packet in lost earnings...
... and be a bonanza for the morally righteous who like to pontificate on Internet chatrooms.
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Old 15th January 2018, 18:35   #171
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Yeah I'm of the same view but I imagine my/our view is likely to be different than the one taken by magistrates or your average jury and I was referring to the second part of the incident doesn't involve a bottle and I guess that part of the incident is why he's being charged.
I can see your point, but I don't see why he should be treated other than any other 20 something lad caught up in a brawl outside a nightclub. The fact that he is a well known cricketer does not change his status. Normal procedure - Night in the cells,up before the beak, plead guilty to affray, fined £100 and a caution/suspended sentence. Community service perhaps.
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Old 15th January 2018, 18:43   #172
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Sounds like a decent lawyer should be able to do a deal with the CPS - plead guilty for no time to be served. Fine and a bit of community service or whatever.

6 months to get there is a farce though.
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Old 16th January 2018, 02:42   #173
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I wonder how this would have played out in NZ.

Closest parallel I can think of was when Jesse Ryder was hospitalised after being punched from behind walking away from a fight he'd been involved in.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11444075

The perpetrator got 250 hours community service and a $3,000 fine after pleading guilty.

Hard to see that what Stokes did was worse than that.
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Old 16th January 2018, 09:33   #174
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Now that Stokes has been charged, I recommend it advisable if discussion on this are left until after the outcome has been decided. It could get either you or us into trouble so would welcome if everyone takes a break until that time.
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Old 16th January 2018, 09:42   #175
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Based on the evidence seen, I was surprised the charge is only affray. If Stokes is wise (or if he acts upon good advice), he'll plead guilty and pay the fine.

Not sure where pleading or being found guilty will leave him in the eyes of the ECB, though.
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Old 16th January 2018, 11:24   #176
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They say the IPL franchises want news as to his availability. surely even if he doesn't receive a custodial sentence he won't be able to travel to India in the near future.
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Old 16th January 2018, 12:43   #177
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He really, really needs to shut up with the self-righteous 'clear my name' nonsense and just say 'guilty, your honour'. He will get a lesser sentence and will be able to get back to playing cricket all the sooner.
I 100% agree. Would there even need to be a trial if he pleaded guilty?
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Old 16th January 2018, 13:03   #178
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I 100% agree. Would there even need to be a trial if he pleaded guilty?
Yes, because there are another two people charged with affray.

However I don't see the need to discuss the case now whilst the proceedings are active and would suggest people heed Chin's warning.
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Old 16th January 2018, 14:05   #179
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Now that Stokes has been charged, I recommend it advisable if discussion on this are left until after the outcome has been decided. It could get either you or us into trouble so would welcome if everyone takes a break until that time.

Not really.

The Times has two pieces about Stokes on its website, one a news story and the other an opinion piece by the chief sports writer saying Stokes should not be perrmitted to play for his country until the trial has taken its course. Both are open for comment and more than 100 readers have expressed a variety of strongly-held opinions today without censorship.

Nobody is going to get "into trouble", either at The Times or still less on here.
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Old 16th January 2018, 14:12   #180
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Sounds like a decent lawyer should be able to do a deal with the CPS - plead guilty for no time to be served. Fine and a bit of community service or whatever.
Would like to think he'd have a better than average lawyer, although whether he listens to him or not is another matter....

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6 months to get there is a farce though.
Totally agree, although has it been six months? Thought BBC piece/timeline suggested it was something like 25th September which would make it coming up four months not six.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41798404

Remembered the date exactly, wow. How long it takes to come to a conclusion dog only knows.
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