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Old 10th January 2018, 01:48   #141
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Originally Posted by billyguntheballs View Post
Is Rahane really that good? he looked a bit lost in England and his SA stats are bloated, but hey, I do agree he is probably better than Sharma. Problem is, he is not of the quality of Smith or Root to change an away tour in the teams favour. Kohli is THAT guy but does not have the patience to avoid off stump line deliveries.

He should really take a leaf out of Tendulkar's book, a man he calls his hero and leave everything outside of off. Just tire the bowlers out, get them frustrated and bowling at him. It will take time, application and patience...those are required for truly great batsmen.

I don't think Kohli's ego allows him to leave consecutive deliveries and not offer a shot.
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Old 10th January 2018, 09:05   #142
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Maybe we would if we picked a spinner. If SA had decided to play Duminy as their sole spinner forever then there would never have been room for Maharaj.
Gibson not sure if he will play Maharaj at Centurion.
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Old 10th January 2018, 12:26   #143
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But yes, you are right- 'A half baked warm-up match' wouldn't probably have helped. What I'm saying is- they ended the Sri Lanka series in the first week of December. Send an A-Team to South Africa by the next week that includes your Test specialists (Rahane, Pujara, Vijay, Ashwin, Jadeja, Ishant, Umesh among others) and play 3-4 Two-day and Three-day matches in different parts, preferably against the South Africa A side- I'm sure the BCCI has that much clout to make it happen. I mean, instead of arm twisting nations in ICC meetings, that's where I'd prefer the clout to be utilized.

And I don't think it's about the attack either- it's about getting used to pitch and surrounding conditions- the bounce on offer, what to leave and what not to etc.
Team Management declined BCCI offer to send core players to South Africa early.

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“The BCCI had offered Indian team management that the core group of Test team can be sent to South Africa early. Players like Murali Vijay, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane are not part of limited overs cricket and were playing local cricket here. The BCCI was ready to bear the cost but team management showed no interest and declined the offer,” a BCCI official told this newspaper. “We were even ready to let top players skip ODI and T20 legs of the series against Sri Lanka.”
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Old 10th January 2018, 18:57   #144
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Originally Posted by billyguntheballs View Post
Is Rahane really that good? he looked a bit lost in England and his SA stats are bloated, but hey, I do agree he is probably better than Sharma. Problem is, he is not of the quality of Smith or Root to change an away tour in the teams favour. Kohli is THAT guy but does not have the patience to avoid off stump line deliveries.
Let's not get carried away here. Root has scored 3 hundreds in 57 away innings - Root finds it challenging to make big scores in conditions he isn't used to. By contrast Rahane actually has 6 hundreds in 40 away innings so I don't think your comparison makes sense. As for Smith, of course Rahane isn't in his class, but in the history of cricket there aren't many who have been in Smith's class.

Also, no idea how his SA stats are "bloated". Small sample size sure but he can't do much about that. As for England, he made a century on a greentop to set up India's only win in that country in the last decade. Yes he declined after that and an average of 33 isn't great but its not a terrible performance. And why cherry pick England when he averages at least 50 in every other country outside the subcontinent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyguntheballs View Post
He should really take a leaf out of Tendulkar's book, a man he calls his hero and leave everything outside of off. Just tire the bowlers out, get them frustrated and bowling at him. It will take time, application and patience...those are required for truly great batsmen.
Kohli is not Tendulkar and never will be. Kohli is essentially a technically flawed player who relies on determination, an impeccable work ethic both on and off the field and a ruthlessness against bowling just short of the highest class to succeed at Test level. But against top quality pace bowling on helpful pitches, determination and hard work will only get you so far.

This is where he falls short of Williamson, Root & Smith, who have the techniques to cope with any sort of bowling (even if in Root's case there is an inability to convert starts into big scores regularly).
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Old 11th January 2018, 01:59   #145
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Let's not get carried away here. Root has scored 3 hundreds in 57 away innings.
That's a damning stat. Didn't realise he was such a home track bully.
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Old 11th January 2018, 11:21   #146
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Let's not get carried away here. Root has scored 3 hundreds in 57 away innings - Root finds it challenging to make big scores in conditions he isn't used to. By contrast Rahane actually has 6 hundreds in 40 away innings so I don't think your comparison makes sense. As for Smith, of course Rahane isn't in his class, but in the history of cricket there aren't many who have been in Smith's class.

Also, no idea how his SA stats are "bloated". Small sample size sure but he can't do much about that. As for England, he made a century on a greentop to set up India's only win in that country in the last decade. Yes he declined after that and an average of 33 isn't great but its not a terrible performance. And why cherry pick England when he averages at least 50 in every other country outside the subcontinent?



Kohli is not Tendulkar and never will be. Kohli is essentially a technically flawed player who relies on determination, an impeccable work ethic both on and off the field and a ruthlessness against bowling just short of the highest class to succeed at Test level. But against top quality pace bowling on helpful pitches, determination and hard work will only get you so far.

This is where he falls short of Williamson, Root & Smith, who have the techniques to cope with any sort of bowling (even if in Root's case there is an inability to convert starts into big scores regularly).

AB, while older, would probably have as much ability and be as technically sound as the aforementioned trio.
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Old 11th January 2018, 12:46   #147
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That's a damning stat. Didn't realise he was such a home track bully.
He also has 20 away fifties. Rahane has just 9.

The runs Rahane has scored has not led to series victories in SA, Eng or Aus and he has avoided playing Pakistan in their test peak.

Root has helped his side win an impressive victory in SA and was one of the few bright spots in the UAE.

Like I always say, actually watch cricket and provide the context for the stats. If Rahane scores runs now in SA and helps his team be competitive, even if they don't win, then he can be in the discussion. Till then, Root, Williamson, Smith and Kohli are on a different level.
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Old 11th January 2018, 14:00   #148
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He also has 20 away fifties. Rahane has just 9.

The runs Rahane has scored has not led to series victories in SA, Eng or Aus and he has avoided playing Pakistan in their test peak.

Root has helped his side win an impressive victory in SA and was one of the few bright spots in the UAE.

Like I always say, actually watch cricket and provide the context for the stats. If Rahane scores runs now in SA and helps his team be competitive, even if they don't win, then he can be in the discussion. Till then, Root, Williamson, Smith and Kohli are on a different level.
While Steyn is injured, this in theory is a more challenging attack than what England faced, because SA was bedevilled by injury then. We will see how it pans out.
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Old 11th January 2018, 15:05   #149
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He also has 20 away fifties. Rahane has just 9.

The runs Rahane has scored has not led to series victories in SA, Eng or Aus and he has avoided playing Pakistan in their test peak.

Root has helped his side win an impressive victory in SA and was one of the few bright spots in the UAE.

Like I always say, actually watch cricket and provide the context for the stats. If Rahane scores runs now in SA and helps his team be competitive, even if they don't win, then he can be in the discussion. Till then, Root, Williamson, Smith and Kohli are on a different level.

A few pretty fifties doesn't help you win a series, as Root has just proven in Australia. He needed to convert those pretty little fifties into 100s to have given England a realistic chance of winning matches. His 5 pretty little fifties had significantly less affect on the series than Cooks 240 which at least ensured that England wouldn't lose.
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Old 11th January 2018, 18:05   #150
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A few pretty fifties doesn't help you win a series, as Root has just proven in Australia. He needed to convert those pretty little fifties into 100s to have given England a realistic chance of winning matches. His 5 pretty little fifties had significantly less affect on the series than Cooks 240 which at least ensured that England wouldn't lose.
Root scoring 50+ was not the reason they lost, because no one other than Malan contributed on even a semi consistent level.

And since we're talking Rahane v Root, Rahanes centuries havent exactly contributed to any away series wins in Eng, SA or Aus. I think they beat SL though, that great bastion of modern test cricket.
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Old 11th January 2018, 18:48   #151
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So when England win in South Africa its because of Root but when England lose in Australia its someone else's fault.

When India lose in England, Australia or South Africa its Rahane's fault but when India win in Sri Lanka, well, Sri Lanka are third rate anyway (let's ignore what happened to Australia the last time they went to Sri Lanka). There's no logic to your arguments billyguntheballs, just shifting goalposts depending on who you want to defend.

For what its worth, I don't actually think Rahane is anywhere close to Root but then you really have to question why Root is under-performing a clearly inferior player away from home? 3 centuries in 30 Tests is actually horribly poor for such a talented player. Maybe there is something to those who say that Root isn't mentally up to it when it really matters.
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Old 13th January 2018, 08:56   #152
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Lokesh Rahul, Murali Vijay, Cheteshwar Pujara, Virat Kohli (captain), Rohit Sharma, Parthiv Patel (wk), Hardik Pandya, Ravichandran Ashwin, Ishant Sharma, Mohammed Shami, Jasprit Bumrah is India's team, while Lungisani Ngidi replaces Steyn.

Markram just misses out on another ton.

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Old 13th January 2018, 15:03   #153
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Looks like after what happened in Cape Town they've prepared a chief executives pitch. Making sure it goes the distance.
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Old 13th January 2018, 15:42   #154
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Bumrah opening the bowling instead of Sharma. Bhuvi left out.

I would have

Vijay
Rahul
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pandya
Saha
Jadeja
Bhuvi
Shami
Sharma

Elgar Markram Amla de Villiers du Plessis Bavuma de Kock Philander Maharaj Rabada Morkel
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Old 13th January 2018, 16:19   #155
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The pitch a bit Subcontinental. India must regret playing only one front line spinner.
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Old 13th January 2018, 21:28   #156
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The pitch a bit Subcontinental. India must regret playing only one front line spinner.
Yeah it surprises me that Jadeja gets left out so much away from home, it would make more sense if they had a couple of part timers like 15 years ago when Sehwag and Tendulkar could turn their arms over but even then Kumble and Harbajan played together away plenty of times.

From what I've seen in ODI cricket Bumrah never struck me as someone who'd be a successful test bowler and his batting/fielding is absolutely pony, I'd have left him out for Jadeja.
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Old 14th January 2018, 10:58   #157
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335, a middling score - can India's batsmen find some form?
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Old 14th January 2018, 11:36   #158
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SA would have expected a lot more before they lost their collective heads late on day one.

This pitch will suit the Indians more than CT. Will be interesting to see how the SA quicks fare on a more docile strip. Ngidi making his debut too.
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:31   #159
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I predict Virat will be dismissed wafting outside off stump.
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Old 14th January 2018, 12:51   #160
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The ball is doing anything out there. Nothing. Nada. It's like a dead India or Aussie wicket. Kohli will be fine.
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