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Old 29th October 2013, 16:12   #1
1000yardstare
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Back Room Staff

There is always lots of information on the players but hardly any on the back room team. I often see new faces but never know who they are or what they do. Only a mention today of Craig De Waymarn and Cook's back put a name to the England physio who started with the England team in April this year. At first I thought that he had replaced Ben Langley but Langley has been promoted to England Lead Physio. Don't know if both are on tour of Australia but looking after 18 players will be tough.

An old piece on our fairly new physio
http://www.ageasbowl.com/news/lucky-man
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Old 30th October 2013, 15:52   #2
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Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
There is always lots of information on the players but hardly any on the back room team. I often see new faces but never know who they are or what they do. Only a mention today of Craig De Waymarn and Cook's back put a name to the England physio who started with the England team in April this year. At first I thought that he had replaced Ben Langley but Langley has been promoted to England Lead Physio. Don't know if both are on tour of Australia but looking after 18 players will be tough.

An old piece on our fairly new physio
http://www.ageasbowl.com/news/lucky-man
By our own Jane Cable.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 02:30   #3
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Well not England squad's immediate back room staff but 3 likely future England bowling coaches?

Glamorgan’s Mike Reed, Gloucestershire’s Craig Miles, Middlesex’s Tom Helm, Somerset’s Craig Overton and Northamptonshire’s Olly Stone have been selected as the PEPP fast bowlers who will undertake intensive strength and conditioning sessions ahead of a trip to South Africa in January.

They will then spend three weeks in Potchefstroom doing concentrated bowling under the guidance of Neil Killeen, Graeme Welch and Glen Chapple.

Why would you need 3 bowling coaches for 5 players?
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Old 2nd November 2013, 13:37   #4
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Maybe as you suggest, the coaches are under the same degree of assessment as the bowlers? I'd imagine its part of their coaching training too.
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Old 25th November 2014, 16:56   #5
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Moores back as England coach.

Assistant coach - Paul Farbrace
Batting coach - Mark Ramprakash
Bowling coach - David Saker
Manager - Phil Neale
Physio - Craig de Waymarn
Strength and Conditioning coach - Phil Scott

Still finding out who the rest of the backroom staff are......

Gemma Broad was the team analyst but has relocated to New Zealand.
The ECB advertised the vacancy recently.

Ottis Gibson back for a short stint with the Fast Bowling Programme which goes to Potchefstroom on Monday 1 Dec with 9 bowlers - Plunkett, C Overton, Broad, Anderson, Dunn, Footitt, Brooks, Rankin, M Wood.

Ray Markham - Scorer for England home internationals

Ben Langley - National lead physio - on tour with the Lions at the moment

Last edited by 1000yardstare : 19th January 2015 at 14:26.
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Old 30th December 2014, 01:31   #6
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Hat tip to the Full Toss, but it appears the conflicted Fraser and Newell, along with the inept Moores, Whitaker and Downton aren't the only selectors, but are joined by amongst others a certain AN Cook.

http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-c...s-and-bob-too/

Agree with Willis on the role of the dead tree media as well. They're embedded and have lost all objectivity.
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Old 30th December 2014, 04:41   #7
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Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
Moores back as England coach.

Assistant coach - Paul Farbrace
Batting coach - Mark Ramprakash
Bowling coach - David Saker
Manager - Phil Neale
Physio - Craig de Waymarn
Strength and Conditioning coach - Phil Scott

Still finding out who the rest of the backroom staff are......

Gemma Broad was the team analyst but has relocated to New Zealand.
The ECB advertised the vacancy recently.

Ottis Gibson back for a short stint with the Fast Bowling Programme which goes to Potchefstroom on Monday 1 Dec with 9 bowlers - Plunkett, C Overton, Broad, Anderson, Dunn, Footitt, Brooks, Rankin, M Wood.

Ray Markham - Scorer for England home internationals
What are the qualifications of a lot of these guys? Ramprakash was a great county batsman whats his qualifications to develop englands top batsman?
How many of these coaches are elite? or got the job through knowing someone...

Analyst is one of the most important roles in coaching now think we should be looking for someone elite in that field.
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Old 30th December 2014, 05:21   #8
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What are the qualifications of a lot of these guys? Ramprakash was a great county batsman whats his qualifications to develop englands top batsman?
How many of these coaches are elite? or got the job through knowing someone...

Analyst is one of the most important roles in coaching now think we should be looking for someone elite in that field.
It's who you know.

How was Whitaker made selector and then later chairman of selectors?
I don't know why the stats man is there as they never bother with stats otherwise Morgan wouldn't even be in the squad and Taylor would be captain. How long did he have to wait when he has the best one day average of 52.62.
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Old 30th December 2014, 07:51   #9
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It's not about stats men or stats, that's where everything falls down in English cricket. The analyst should not be there to recite and obsess over form and scores, he should be there to analyse habits, faults, times of dismissals, is the batsman getting out after a break? is he struggling to get started? has he been getting out in the 90's? what sort of bowlers has he been struggling against, what bowling has he flourished against, where has he scored his runs, when has he struggled to score....all these vital bits of information which should then be passed on to a competent high quality coach who can outline the findings to the athlete and work then on improving and fixing the faults. That's the whole role of sports science and proper coaching. Englands entire mindset it negative, inconsistent and hugely outdated.

stats dont make morgan a good or bad player, form does, analysing why his forms gone and doing everything in the coaches power to bring it back is the role of the set up - and they fail at it abysmally - why? because we have terrible coaches and a hugely corrupt antiquated system that bodes no chance of success.
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Old 30th December 2014, 08:22   #10
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It's not about stats men or stats, that's where everything falls down in English cricket. The analyst should not be there to recite and obsess over form and scores, he should be there to analyse habits, faults, times of dismissals, is the batsman getting out after a break? is he struggling to get started? has he been getting out in the 90's? what sort of bowlers has he been struggling against, what bowling has he flourished against, where has he scored his runs, when has he struggled to score....all these vital bits of information which should then be passed on to a competent high quality coach who can outline the findings to the athlete and work then on improving and fixing the faults. That's the whole role of sports science and proper coaching. Englands entire mindset it negative, inconsistent and hugely outdated.

stats dont make morgan a good or bad player, form does, analysing why his forms gone and doing everything in the coaches power to bring it back is the role of the set up - and they fail at it abysmally - why? because we have terrible coaches and a hugely corrupt antiquated system that bodes no chance of success.
Indeed. Spot on about the analyst.
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Old 30th December 2014, 09:53   #11
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Had an interesting conversation about stats with my friend who is a mathematician (Hi Sam, if you're lurking) the other day when we were having a hit about.

Basically I was voicing the same opinion that Beefy has had here but my friend noted that it's not the stats that are the problem and it just seems like it because of the way England have used them.

The upshot was that a good mathematician, scientist or indeed analyst should only use stats as a raw guide combining them with the things Beefy has talked about. They cannot and should not be used (as has been tended by team England) as a panacea and clear pathway to success ignoring the individual. They can help you identify (along with other observable factors) what the issue is but they cannot just be taken as read otherwise you don't bowl your best bowler at Melbourne because quicks take the majority of wickets on the 4th day and he's a spinner or you think Trott was a great ODI batsman.

England's problem (as Beefy has alluded to above) is that they are far to intransigent and fixed in their ways and their way is stats = the secret code to success.
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Old 30th December 2014, 10:07   #12
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How is it then that it seems so obvious to so many of us but not to players and coaches? I find this even with our Indian cricket team.
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Old 30th December 2014, 12:04   #13
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I don't really see a problem with having an analyst sitting in selection meetings. I am more than happy to criticise England's decisions but I still don't think they're so naive to just pick players from a list of averages. Picking Moeen for example must have been based on a deeper knowledge of his ability. Having the captain's input doesn't seem that bad an idea either, even though they've been picking the wrong captain but that's a slightly different issue.
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Old 30th December 2014, 12:17   #14
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My general view is that the importance of back-room staff tends to be exaggerated and their role is somewhat misunderstood. I see their role as facilitators, trying to make sure each player plays to their potential and understands what they are supposed to do (as well as having a part in selecting the right players)
Most of the onus of playing well however remains, and will always remain with the players. Great master-plans/ strategies and tactics all sound good, but are peripheral to the simple fact that the team with the better players will usually win.
Whether the numbers of back room staff genuinely helps or hinders all that is debatable to say the least
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Old 31st December 2014, 18:36   #15
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Had an interesting conversation about stats with my friend who is a mathematician (Hi Sam, if you're lurking) the other day when we were having a hit about.

Basically I was voicing the same opinion that Beefy has had here but my friend noted that it's not the stats that are the problem and it just seems like it because of the way England have used them.

The upshot was that a good mathematician, scientist or indeed analyst should only use stats as a raw guide combining them with the things Beefy has talked about. They cannot and should not be used (as has been tended by team England) as a panacea and clear pathway to success ignoring the individual. They can help you identify (along with other observable factors) what the issue is but they cannot just be taken as read otherwise you don't bowl your best bowler at Melbourne because quicks take the majority of wickets on the 4th day and he's a spinner or you think Trott was a great ODI batsman.

England's problem (as Beefy has alluded to above) is that they are far to intransigent and fixed in their ways and their way is stats = the secret code to success.
As a scientist who used to acquire large amounts of data I can only concur with your friend. The skill is in asking the right questions of the data then knowing how to interpret the answers it gives you.

Some posters on here are much like the English management and seem to be obsessed with stats for stats sake.
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Old 31st December 2014, 18:48   #16
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Does anyone remember The Reverend Andrew Wingfield-Digby (Oxford Univ, Dorset), who served as 'Spiritual Advisor' to the England team in the early 1990s? He was moved out by Ray Illingworth who, as ever, was probably thinking well ahead of the game...in today's multi-religious environment, one can only imagine the size of a spiritual advisory group on Team England's books.
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Old 31st December 2014, 18:51   #17
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Does anyone remember The Reverend Andrew Wingfield-Digby, who served as 'Spiritual Advisor' to the England team in the early 1990s? He was moved out by Ray Illingworth who, as ever, was probably thinking well ahead of the game...in today's multi-religious environment, one can only imagine the size of a spiritual advisory group on Team England's books.
Yes I do. I'd argue he was a few years ahead of his time as Glenn Hoddle used a spiritualist a few years later as England football boss(Eileen Drewery I think). I remember David Gower saying that he found the outside use of a friendly voice to speak to quite reassuring. However that was around the time he was moved out of the side.
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Old 6th January 2015, 19:53   #18
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On one tour didn't England's back room staff require 3 coaches to transport them all?
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Old 8th January 2015, 11:31   #19
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As a scientist who used to acquire large amounts of data I can only concur with your friend. The skill is in asking the right questions of the data then knowing how to interpret the answers it gives you.

Some posters on here are much like the English management and seem to be obsessed with stats for stats sake
.
Not a truer word spoken, it's the English disease.

I'm glad to make by business in Australia at the moment, the sports industry is top of the tree woldwide, the way they use sports science is second to none and I've achieved an array of fantastic qualifications out here thanks to the systems they have. English cricket is the opitomy of antiquated thinking, and that goes for quite a lot of the fans too. But then when we have more than a fair share of England fans asking for Australia to win the next test when England 2-0 up you tend to realise at that point why the English will never be dominant in cricket. We're just not competetive enough - and that includes our use of coaching and technology - I'm starting to seriously doubt whether we're at all even interested in being 'the best'. The ECB certainly don't seem to give a monkeys, the fans obviously aren't comfortable winning and the players are all 'nice blokes' happy to collect their paycheques and be greatful for the opportunity to take part.

The points all made above by posters are spot on.

today i've read people calling for Cooks head as he's averaged x from x games. Does that change the fact he's world class with great talent, great track record and many miles left in the tank? no! it's the coaches job to help him re-find form, not to speculate behind a keyboard quote a few stats and call for his head to be replaced by a county pro.
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Old 8th January 2015, 11:59   #20
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Not a truer word spoken, it's the English disease.

I'm glad to make by business in Australia at the moment, the sports industry is top of the tree woldwide, the way they use sports science is second to none and I've achieved an array of fantastic qualifications out here thanks to the systems they have. English cricket is the opitomy of antiquated thinking, and that goes for quite a lot of the fans too. But then when we have more than a fair share of England fans asking for Australia to win the next test when England 2-0 up you tend to realise at that point why the English will never be dominant in cricket. We're just not competetive enough - and that includes our use of coaching and technology - I'm starting to seriously doubt whether we're at all even interested in being 'the best'. The ECB certainly don't seem to give a monkeys, the fans obviously aren't comfortable winning and the players are all 'nice blokes' happy to collect their paycheques and be greatful for the opportunity to take part.
The further i float from the UK, and the further i develop my own training in this field, the more I come to realise what a joke our entire cricket culture is by comparison to here.
A joke...or simply a different perspective born from a different national psyche? I would suggest that there are many in the UK - or more specifically England - who adhere to the notion that sport is important because it's unimportant, ie it's a brilliant entertainment through which to socialise and let one's emotions let rip whilst ultimately meaning diddly squat in the big scheme of things. I'm one of those who prefers a close Ashes series to an overwhelming England victory, because exciting cricket is more important to me than the idea that somehow my self esteem is enhanced if England win at a ball game. I've played club cricket in Australia and England and much preferred the home variety because it was more about having fun on my day off than winning above all else. I recognise that others feel very differently, and more so in certain nations, and I don't claim my perspective is superior. Just different, and as equally valid.
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