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Old 28th April 2010, 23:37   #641
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Originally Posted by square leg umpire View Post
It got suport on this forum because England have form in this matter, to put it mildly. The counties are left to pick up the pieces.
What do you mean by "form on this matter"? Do you mean they have chosen to leave out players who failed to impress in nets/practice matches?
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Old 29th April 2010, 00:34   #642
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What do you mean by "form on this matter"? Do you mean they have chosen to leave out players who failed to impress in nets/practice matches?
I mean they have messed with players techniques and screwed them up so they can't even perform at county level.
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Old 30th April 2010, 00:25   #643
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Interesting question on that: should England look to change players technically in the hope that even if it wrecks a few some will improve into really threatening ones on the world stage or should it look to keep players doing what has worked for them in the county game?
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Old 30th April 2010, 01:55   #644
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Yeah but you're only saying that because you're a Lancs fan.

The thing that really got me about the article was the way even Rashid taking wickets was described as if it vindicated the view that England had wrecked him. It seemed a very poor piece of journalism. Also, young leg spinner in being hit for runs bowling long hops is hardly the shock of the century, is it? If only IGHOLS were around for his views on the matter, although I think he generally bowled full tosses, rather than long hops.
If you need help on bowling long hops, that is my stock china-man delivery.
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Old 30th April 2010, 21:48   #645
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If you need help on bowling long hops, that is my stock china-man delivery.
That's useful to know. You batting isn't very good, is it? Can you field, by any chance?
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Old 31st May 2010, 21:50   #646
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Was at Headingley on Sunday, and Rashid got two long bowls.

He looks to be struggling. There's less flow to his action than when I've seen him in previous seasons, and it looks very jerky coming out of the hand. My guess is that the England coaches have been encouraging him to pivot put more wrist into his action to spin the ball harder. It's not doing him any favours at the moment, and his length was all over the place, with too few dangerous leg-breaks which drew the batsmen forward.

With a spinner, the knock-on confidence hit from technical difficulties is probably that bit greater, although he's not going round the park too badly. He probably needs to do what Anderson did and go back to bowling as he would naturally; whatever the case it's going to be an uncomfortable season and perhaps beyond that. Hopefully England will stay away for the foreseeable future.
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Old 9th July 2010, 08:13   #647
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It was mentioned on TMS that Yorkshire (I think) have asked for Rashid not be selected for any England teams to allow him to get back in the groove of bowling again. If that is the case it sounds the same as what they did for Anderson in 2005 after all his time in the winter spent carrying drinks.
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Old 10th July 2010, 04:29   #648
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Originally Posted by square leg umpire View Post
I mean they have messed with players techniques and screwed them up so they can't even perform at county level.
Judging by this interview with 'Auntie' that appears to be the case...

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/824...id_Wainwright/

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Interesting question on that: should England look to change players technically in the hope that even if it wrecks a few some will improve into really threatening ones on the world stage or should it look to keep players doing what has worked for them in the county game?
What they've shown on the county circuit is what got those players England recognition in the first place. To suddenly start faffing about with their actions will, judging by the subsequent performances of Plunkett and Wainwright, set them back alarmingly.
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Old 14th July 2010, 16:27   #649
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Interesting question on that: should England look to change players technically in the hope that even if it wrecks a few some will improve into really threatening ones on the world stage or should it look to keep players doing what has worked for them in the county game?
A very interesting question. How many appear to have benefitted from that kind of attempt? My impression (not having done any research at all!) is that tweaks have sometimes worked, but remodelling of a player's action has nearly always been a bad move.

With spinners, isn't it much more about control and variation? Some of the best spinners have been unusual in some way (Underwood, Muralitharan). Should they have had their bowling styles tampered with in the hope of making them more threatening? Or should Swann have been changed by England?

It's very hard to stop doing what comes naturally and start doing things the standard way, as I know to my cost with my attempts to play classical guitar. My bad habits are too ingrained, and I have had to admit that I'm better off accepting that others' guitar playing will always be better than mine.
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Old 18th July 2010, 11:15   #650
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question. who or whom has been 'changed' and then gone on to make a better player?

I can think of plenty who have been changed and then changed back but I cant think of one who has been benefited. I really think the whole technical adjustments thing is futile anyway - to make even the most minor of changes will take months - years even. Maybe as much time as is took to learn the 'bad' habit. Pointless in anyone already grown up.

It is a basic behavioral trait in all human beings, that, when faced with an amount of pressure which overwhelms them they return to earliest learned coping strategy. Changing a behavior does not erase it - it merely buries it.
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Old 26th August 2010, 18:19   #651
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Struggled with his bowling these last few FC games.
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Old 24th September 2010, 01:53   #652
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His stats in the 2010 County Championship - 732 runs @ 45.75 & 57 wickets @ 31.29.

For this he has been named as County Championship Player of the Year by the PCA.

Last edited by Slater : 13th October 2012 at 20:37.
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Old 24th September 2010, 09:18   #653
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His stats in the 2010 County Championship - 732 runs @ 45.75 & 57 wickets @ 31.29.

For this he has been named as County Championship Player of the Year by the PCA.
I am slightly disappointed that he didn't make the squad, if they did feel at the last minute that they would play two spinners (and I don't think they will unless a pitch is really likely to rag).
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Old 24th September 2010, 11:34   #654
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Although I think Monty is a better bowler than Rashid I did expect Rashid or Treadwell to be the second spinner in the party on the grounds that they are 'like-for-like' replacements in terms of their batting prowess - if Swann trips over a rugby ball on the morning of the match we'd have Jimmy batting at 9, Monty at 10 and Finn at 11. I know there's an argument that we pick bowlers purely on the merits of their strongest suit - which I mainly support - but when we look at how vital tail-end runs were in last year's Ashes I don't think it's something we can ignore.

I guess the thought process for the Performance Squad is that they want to have a look at Danny Briggs - which is correct - and possibly Treadwell will be joining up with the ODI party so they want to keep him Down Under. Unlucky for Rashid though...
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Old 26th September 2010, 12:26   #655
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I think they have belatedly decided that the lad needs time to develop having come perilously close to breaking him by offering a deluge of attention when he really couldn't process it. This is called the Swann position. Its sort of like the thing that you have to do with a girlfriend to get her back if she's lost interest- you need to convince them you aren't interested too - and you really have to convince them 'else they know - in fact you have to convince yourself.
Rashid may or may not be an England player again - I disagree that he is an inferior bowler to Monty - for me Monty has less utility than a county heavy roller - Adil is a better cricketer in every department. Monty ,as Warne said, played one test match 39 times. We'd all love to have him in our club sides though.
Monty needs to do his one thing brilliantly if he is to make up for his utter hopelessness in ever other dept. His average after 39 tests is 15 too high to warrant inclusion on that basis alone. Any medium pace bowling batsman(Bopara Wright et al) should play before him in every country outside of the Indian subcontinent - if a fifth was required.
We - well most of us I think - are happy that Adil has been let go of as the new messiah - no one needs that tag. Especially not in this needy country.
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Old 26th September 2010, 17:20   #656
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Monty must be pretty Sikh and tired of that Shane Warne quote about him playing the same Test over and over again. What he was doing in the first place was fine and he'll do a decent job if needed. I agree with everything else you say about Rashid.
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Old 26th September 2010, 17:29   #657
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Monty must be pretty Sikh and tired of that Shane Warne quote about him playing the same Test over and over again. What he was doing in the first place was fine and he'll do a decent job if needed. I agree with everything else you say about Rashid.

Towards the end of his time in the side he was bowling too flat and too quick. Earlier in his career there wasn't alot wrong with his flight and dip but it appears that his capacity to think much about his bowling wasn't particularly good. I have no idea if his range has improved when he's been down at Sussex, but at the very least his results were very good in the
season just gone. I don't particularly blame Warne for what he said, because from the Sri Lanka away tour onwards it was clear that his game hadn't progressed enough.
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Old 26th September 2010, 17:46   #658
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Towards the end of his time in the side he was bowling too flat and too quick. Earlier in his career there wasn't alot wrong with his flight and dip but it appears that his capacity to think much about his bowling wasn't particularly good. I have no idea if his range has improved when he's been down at Sussex, but at the very least his results were very good in the
season just gone. I don't particularly blame Warne for what he said, because from the Sri Lanka away tour onwards it was clear that his game hadn't progressed enough.
True, he didn't bowl very well in Sri Lanka on some very slow pitches and against some high quality batsmen. But that was when people started getting in his head unnecessarily imo and he wasn't strong enough mentally to cope with it. I think that's what he has gained this year at Sussex rather than anything technical.
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Old 26th September 2010, 17:48   #659
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From what Ive heard, hes given up all that variation **** and gone back to what he did originally.
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Old 22nd January 2011, 14:55   #660
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Rashid in Australia's Big Bash

1-0-14-0
3-1-15-3
1-0-12-0
4-0-26-2

Average 13.4 econ 7.44 s/r 10.0
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