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Old 4th February 2021, 12:24   #21
1000yardstare
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@swamy64

The England Series at home will be played with the New Variant of SG Ball. The ball will now have a more pronounced seam. The cork used inside the ball will be harder and it will have a darker shade of red.
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Old 4th February 2021, 12:54   #22
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@swamy64

The England Series at home will be played with the New Variant of SG Ball. The ball will now have a more pronounced seam. The cork used inside the ball will be harder and it will have a darker shade of red.
Should benefit our best seamers - if they play.
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Old 4th February 2021, 12:56   #23
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How likely is Lawrence to score substantially more runs than moeen or woakes? We shouldn’t pick a batsman over an all rounder unless we think he is more likely to score more runs. Not much between woakes and Lawrence on first class batting average and woakes has played lots of tests. Probably only a run or two difference in county cricket. So does Lawrence justify it when he won’t contribute with ball?
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Old 4th February 2021, 13:15   #24
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
How likely is Lawrence to score substantially more runs than moeen or woakes? We shouldn’t pick a batsman over an all rounder unless we think he is more likely to score more runs. Not much between woakes and Lawrence on first class batting average and woakes has played lots of tests. Probably only a run or two difference in county cricket. So does Lawrence justify it when he won’t contribute with ball?
Substantially more likely I'd say.

England can bowl India out - it's lack of runs that will kill us.
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Old 4th February 2021, 13:50   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
How likely is Lawrence to score substantially more runs than moeen or woakes? We shouldn’t pick a batsman over an all rounder unless we think he is more likely to score more runs. Not much between woakes and Lawrence on first class batting average and woakes has played lots of tests. Probably only a run or two difference in county cricket. So does Lawrence justify it when he won’t contribute with ball?
I think Lawrence is much more likely to play a big innings than an all-rounder is. And if the initial plan was to play Crawley then replacing him with a batsman doesn't affect the bowling. England may use the situation as a way of getting Moeen back into the team without upsetting Bess, but that would hamper the batting.
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Old 4th February 2021, 13:51   #26
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I think Lawrence is much more likely to play a big innings than an all-rounder is. And if the initial plan was to play Crawley then replacing him with a batsman doesn't affect the bowling. England may use the situation as a way of getting Moeen back into the team without upsetting Bess, but that would hamper the batting.
Plus you are potentially developing him for the future as a test batsman.
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Old 4th February 2021, 14:33   #27
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My guess for the team tomorrow

Burns
Sibley
Lawrence
Root -100th cap
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Woakes
Leach
Bess
Anderson/Broad - depending on rotation

They'll probably have to play two spinners which means Archer or Woakes would miss out. My hunch says it's Archer.
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Old 4th February 2021, 14:40   #28
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My guess for the team tomorrow

Burns
Sibley
Lawrence
Root -100th cap
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Woakes
Leach
Bess
Anderson/Broad - depending on rotation

They'll probably have to play two spinners which means Archer or Woakes would miss out. My hunch says it's Archer.
Archer for Woakes, Leach batting below Bess.
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Old 4th February 2021, 14:41   #29
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@swamy64

The England Series at home will be played with the New Variant of SG Ball. The ball will now have a more pronounced seam. The cork used inside the ball will be harder and it will have a darker shade of red.
Is there a prize on Twitter today for getting Government Covid slogans into their tweets?
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Old 4th February 2021, 15:47   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan11 View Post
My guess for the team tomorrow

Burns
Sibley
Lawrence
Root -100th cap
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Woakes
Leach
Bess
Anderson/Broad - depending on rotation

They'll probably have to play two spinners which means Archer or Woakes would miss out. My hunch says it's Archer.
Well it's definitely Buttler for Foakes and Archer will play. It sounds like the pitch could have something in it for the seamers so Woakes at 7 instead of Lawrence at 3 might be possible.
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Old 4th February 2021, 15:59   #31
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I think Lawrence is much more likely to play a big innings than an all-rounder is. And if the initial plan was to play Crawley then replacing him with a batsman doesn't affect the bowling. England may use the situation as a way of getting Moeen back into the team without upsetting Bess, but that would hamper the batting.
They both have ten first class tons and woakes has a test ton vs India. It is not as obvious as you might think. Yes woakes has played more first class innings but removing the tests he has 9 tons in 164 innings compared to 10 in about 120 for Lawrence. Remember Lawrence will have more opportunities to score tons because he usually bats higher.

This is all about a balance. How much will stokes bowl?

Speaking of stokes. Do you think Lawrence will score more than him or are we not counting stokes as an all rounder?
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Old 4th February 2021, 16:16   #32
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They both have ten first class tons and woakes has a test ton vs India. It is not as obvious as you might think. Yes woakes has played more first class innings but removing the tests he has 9 tons in 164 innings compared to 10 in about 120 for Lawrence. Remember Lawrence will have more opportunities to score tons because he usually bats higher.

This is all about a balance. How much will stokes bowl?

Speaking of stokes. Do you think Lawrence will score more than him or are we not counting stokes as an all rounder?
Moeen hasn't scored a test ton for 5 years.

We need someone who can score big - like Stokes, Burns and Root. Not a breezy 30.
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Old 4th February 2021, 16:47   #33
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Averages 42 in India. I am not saying it has to be him. Maybe Lawrence will score lots of runs, I am not convinced he is that much better than woakes or moeen though.
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Old 4th February 2021, 16:57   #34
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Averages 42 in India. I am not saying it has to be him. Maybe Lawrence will score lots of runs, I am not convinced he is that much better than woakes or moeen though.
Lawrence has a much higher potential upside in runs over the next few years than those two. For that reason I would pick him. May not work out but worth trying.
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Old 4th February 2021, 17:05   #35
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Lawrence has a much higher potential upside in runs over the next few years than those two. For that reason I would pick him. May not work out but worth trying.
If we were planning on playing a batting order with Crawley at 3 and Buttler at 7, the easiest way to replace is Lawrence. That seems the best way for me to go big which is what we need to do.
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Old 4th February 2021, 17:57   #36
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Old 4th February 2021, 18:19   #37
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Lawrence has a much higher potential upside in runs over the next few years than those two. For that reason I would pick him. May not work out but worth trying.
Why do we care about the next few years? It does my head in. Let’s pick the team most likely to win the match. So what contributes more to a win. Woakes or moeen batting and bowling or Lawrence batting? The debate is whether Lawrence will score that many more runs that it justifies losing a potential bowling option.
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Old 4th February 2021, 18:36   #38
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For example.

41 - Moeen Ali has taken 41 Test wickets versus India; only one England spinner (Derek Underwood, 62) has ever recorded more against them. Previous. #INDvENG
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Old 4th February 2021, 18:54   #39
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Originally Posted by 1000yardstare View Post
@swamy64

The England Series at home will be played with the New Variant of SG Ball. The ball will now have a more pronounced seam. The cork used inside the ball will be harder and it will have a darker shade of red.

Irrelevant to this thread shurely
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Old 4th February 2021, 19:12   #40
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Moeen hasn't scored a test ton for 5 years.

We need someone who can score big - like Stokes, Burns and Root. Not a breezy 30.
and citing frequency of hundreds and abilities to with little regard for context of playing in India is crazy


Woakes averages a whopping FOURTEEN in India, yes it's only from five knocks but the only hundred in sight isn't a hundred it's a "breezy 30" - so breezy it took 47 balls and he was then blown over

As for comical Ali, well he did ok in India last time around as I recall, but he hasn't played a lot for England in the past year or two and it didn't do England much good as they lost 4-0

Ali made 146 in the 5th Test, "dead rubber" I hear everyone except SVAZ shout, problem was more the 2nd innings when England reached 103/0 then lost Cook, Root, Jennings and Bairstow before they reached 150 and the all-rounder theory saw Stokes, Buttler, Dawson, Rashid, Broad and Ball add 32 between them - what price an extra batsman?

Bowlers did ok that Test, 759/7d! Ali 1/190 in his only bowl, their only bowl.


The other hundred that series, 117. England drew that opening Test, all uphill on a downward trajectory from there. Woakes, Rashid, Ansari and Broad managed 47 between them, Woakes just the 4 runs out of that and took 0/57

Match might have been edging towards England, 172/6 India chasing 310 to win. One thing might be worth considering is playing Ali at #4 again, suspect Root won't budge though
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