Bowlers and Bowling

[otto nothling]

Originally Posted by FastBowlersUnion

http://www.cricketnext.com/news/engl.../29123-13.html

Mr Cricket's opinion of the best bowlers.

but no one has mentioned the quicks of the west indies in the eighties and before that the mid seventies.
there is a famous video of a michael holding over to brian close in the now infamous oval test of 1976,where holding took his 14 wickets.nasty,acccurate(for maiming the batsmen lol) and very unplayable!
forget about your harmisons,your lees et al,this stuff was the real deal!
relentless!

[Aidan11]

Originally Posted by mattyb

but no one has mentioned the quicks of the west indies in the eighties and before that the mid seventies.
there is a famous video of a michael holding over to brian close in the now infamous oval test of 1976,where holding took his 14 wickets.nasty,acccurate(for maiming the batsmen lol) and very unplayable!
forget about your harmisons,your lees et al,this stuff was the real deal!
relentless!

Indeed. This was when I first remember test cricket with Holding & Roberts taking our batsmen apart. They were quick enough already but we could have done without Greig's famous "grovel" remark. In those days the best way to play those bowlers was from the non-strikers end

[otto nothling]

Originally Posted by Aidan11

Indeed. This was when I first remember test cricket with Holding & Roberts taking our batsmen apart. They were quick enough already but we could have done without Greig's famous "grovel" remark. In those days the best way to play those bowlers was from the non-strikers end

and later you had marshall,ambrose,walsh and patterson.the list is endless.
PACE MADNESS!

[Chin Music]

Originally Posted by mattyb

and later you had marshall,ambrose,walsh and patterson.the list is endless.
PACE MADNESS!

I just about remember their tour of 1980 and then Big Bird Garner and Holding were the two I most remember, but my first test actually attending was the blackwash match of 1984.

[otto nothling]

Originally Posted by Chin Music

I just about remember their tour of 1980 and then Big Bird Garner and Holding were the two I most remember, but my first test actually attending was the blackwash match of 1984.

i remember the test of that series from old trafford and meeting botham and viv richards on the boundary edge,which was nice!

[1000yardstare]

Originally Posted by mattyb

but no one has mentioned the quicks of the west indies in the eighties and before that the mid seventies.
there is a famous video of a michael holding over to brian close in the now infamous oval test of 1976,where holding took his 14 wickets.nasty,acccurate(for maiming the batsmen lol) and very unplayable!
forget about your harmisons,your lees et al,this stuff was the real deal!
relentless!

I think Hussey was talking about recent times.

Australian bowling

Since McGrath retired in 2007

Johnson (34) 73 Tests 313 at 28.40 - Retired
Siddle (31) 61 Tests 208 at 29.88
Bollinger (34) 12 Tests 50 wickets at 25.92
Hilfenhaus (32) 27 Tests 99 wickets at 28.50
McKay (32) 1 Test at 101.00
Harris (35) 27 Tests 113 at 23.52 - Retired
George (29) 1 Test 2 wickets at 38.50
Copeland (29) 3 Tests 6 wickets at 37.83
Cummins (22) 1 Test 7 wickets at 16.71
Pattinson (25) 16 Tests 64 wickets 26.14
Starc (26) 25 Tests 91 wickets at 30.58
Hastings (30) 1 Test 1 wicket at 153.00
Faulkner (25) 1 Test 6 wickets at 16.33
Hazelwood (25) 16 Tests 67 wickets at 24.08

England

Tremlett (32) 12 Tests 53 wickets at 27.00 - Retired
Broad (29) 91 Tests 333 wickets at 28.66
Pattinson (36) 1 Test 2 wickets at 48.00 - Retired
Khan (35) 1 Test 1 wicket at 132.00 - Retired
Bresnan (30) 23 Tests 72 wickets at 32.73
Onions (33) 9 Tests 32 wickets at 29.90
Finn (26) 29 Tests 113 wickets at 28.34
Shahzad (30) 1 Test 4 wickets at 15.75
Woakes (26) 6 Tests 8 wickets at 63.75
Stokes (24) 23 Tests 57 wickets at 38.07
Rankin (31) 1 Test 1 wicket at 81.00
Jordan (27) 8 Tests 21 wickets at 35.80
Wood (26) 8 Tests 25 wickets at 34.40

Was looking at this because Siddle is a fitness doubt. 9 players only played 1 Test. Some of them as injury replacements and probably only Cummins likely to get another Test, well maybe Hastings. If Marsh is ever injured then Faulkner might play.

You wonder how many Tests is enough to know if a bowler will make it. I am thinking of Woakes, Jordan and Wood. Will Jordan and Woakes become injury replacements? Will Tom Curran and Topley be tried while they are still very young? Think of Rabada 6 Tests 24 at 24.70.

South Africa - Steyn Philander Morkel Rabada
England - Anderson Broad Finn Wood
New Zealand - Boult Southee Wagner Bracewell
Australia - Starc Hazelwood Siddle Pattinson
Pakistan - Amir JKhan Riaz Asif
India - Sharma Yadav Shami Kumar

Can't think of 4 for the other countries

[otto nothling]

this is a thread about bowlers and bowling,isnt it not?
yes and i realized he was talking about recent times dude!

[Greatbatch]

Originally Posted by Chin Music

It really would be interesting to see who would be the first choice Indian attack. My feeling is that RP, Zaheer and Sree would be just that come rain or shine with of course Kumble for the spinning berth. But their great advantage is that they have to perform or they're out the team. At the moment even if England had a first choice line up of say Hoggard, Harmison and Flintoff with Monty as the spinner (look don't ask me to go into the 4-5 bowler issue we simply don't have the batting at the mo) no-one is breaking down doors to replace any one of them, not even Stuart Broad at the moment.

It does seem a bit pointless Hussey rating England's bowling attack from 2005 as better than the current Indian bowling attack, when that 2005 England bowling attack seems unlikely to be seen again. In the 2005 Ashes series Flintoff and Jones were England's best bowlers but it is unlikely they will ever return to that sort of form, if they ever return at all. Hoggard & Harmison are still around but have also been struggling with injury/form lately and there don't appear too many other quality bowlers around to replace them, let alone Flintoff or Jones.

India's current pace bowling stocks appear to be a lot more healthy than England's current bowling stocks, with the likes of Khan, Singh, Sreesanth, Sharma and Pathan to choose from. Not to mention the fact that India's spin bowling, with both Kumble and Harbhajan, is also stronger than England's with just Panesar.

[1000yardstare]

Originally Posted by Greatbatch

India's current pace bowling stocks appear to be a lot more healthy than England's current bowling stocks, with the likes of Khan, Singh, Sreesanth, Sharma and Pathan to choose from. Not to mention the fact that India's spin bowling, with both Kumble and Harbhajan, is also stronger than England's with just Panesar.

I would agree.

[Chin Music]

I'm certainly not gonna dispute that either. The only issue I have with India's bowlers in the recent past is that they have started off well and then disappeared for a couple of years or forever. Zaheer started off very well and then tailed off for a while, Nehra the same and he's never come back, Munaf has done likewise as well to an extent. It does seem they have had an issue of fitness and conditioning and I hope that they look after Sharma well, with more strength and stamina its pretty obvious he could be very dangerous indeed.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by Chin Music

I'm certainly not gonna dispute that either. The only issue I have with India's bowlers in the recent past is that they have started off well and then disappeared for a couple of years or forever. Zaheer started off very well and then tailed off for a while, Nehra the same and he's never come back, Munaf has done likewise as well to an extent. It does seem they have had an issue of fitness and conditioning and I hope that they look after Sharma well, with more strength and stamina its pretty obvious he could be very dangerous indeed.

That reminds me the instant rise and fall of Laxmipathy Balaji, he was a cult hero in pakistan of all places

[Chin Music]

Originally Posted by Apocalypto

That reminds me the instant rise and fall of Laxmipathy Balaji, he was a cult hero in pakistan of all places

he had tusks for teeth almost!

[1000yardstare]

Top 5 bowling averages of bowlers still playing. Only Bond and Murali have the best averages in both forms of the game.

Tests
21.77 - Murali
21.88 - Clark (unlikely to keep his place in ODIs with Bracken, Tait, Lee and Johnson)
22.39 - Bond (could still play international cricket)
23.13 - Asif (unlikely to bring his ODI bowling averages of 36.38 down, more suited to the longer game)
23.31 - Steyn (should be able to bring his ODI average of 30.92 down in the next couple of years)

ODIs
19.32 - Bond
22.68 - Murali
22.83 - Lee (still has time to get his Test average of 29.97 down)
22.86- Bracken (unlikely to play Test cricket)
23.20 - Akhtar (if he actually played he could get his Test average down from 25.69)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/f...801097795.html

[1000yardstare]

Well since Moores has taken over from Fletcher we have played three Tests series and three ODI series. So how have our bowlers fared in no particular order. I have given my own personal best bowler awards and there may be more than one in a series.
All the bowlers have done well but not all of the time.

Panesar
West Indies - 4 Tests - 23 wickets at 18.13 - best bowler
India - 3 Tests - 8 wickets at 50.38
Sri Lanka - 3 Tests - 8 wickets at 50.63
West Indies - 2 ODIs - 1 wicket at 57.00
India - 6 ODIs - 6 wickets at 44.67
Sri Lanka - 1 ODI - 1 wicket at 31.00

Sidebottom
West Indies - 3 Tests - 16 wickets at 19.69 - best bowler
India - 3 Tests - 8 wickets at 37.88
Sri Lanka - 3 Tests - 5 wickets at 63.60
West Indies - 1 ODI - 2 wickets at 28.00
Sri Lanka - 5 ODIs - 12 wickets at 13.83 - best bowler

Anderson
India - 3 Tests - 14 wickets at 35.57 - best bowler
Sri Lanka - 1 Test - 2 wickets at 83.50
West Indies - 3 ODIs - 5 wickets at 30.40
India - 7 ODIs - 14 wickets at 22.57 - best bowler
Sri Lanka - 5 ODIs - 4 wickets at 48.25

Broad
Sri Lanka - 1 Test - 1 wicket at 95.00
West Indies - 3 ODIs - 5 wickets at 28.00
India - 7 ODIs - 9 wickets at 37.78
Sri Lanka - 5 ODIs - 11 wickets at 19.27 - best bowler

Hoggard
West Indies - 2 Tests - 5 wickets at 23.00
Sri Lanka - 2 Tests - 7 wickets at 29.29 - best bowler

Harmison
West Indies - 4 Tests - 16 wickets at 34.25 - best bowler
Sri Lanka - 2 Tests - 6 wickets at 35.83


Plunkett
West Indies - 3 Tests - 7 wickets at 45.00
West Indies - 2 ODIs - 5 wickets at 19.40 - best bowler

Tremlett
India - 3 Tests - 13 wickets at 29.69 - best bowler
India - 2 ODIs - 2 wickets at 65.00

Swann
Sri Lanka - 4 ODIs - 7 wickets at 22.29 - best bowler

Mascarenhas
India - 4 ODIs - 6 wickets at 22.83 - best bowler

[Fatslogger]

You are joking about Harmison against the Windies, aren't you? A generous assessment would describe him as a curate's egg in that series. I think he was far better against Sri Lanka and certainly vastly better in context, given how badly the other bowlers fared, even if his average was a touch worse than in the Windies series.

[1000yardstare]

What 'worst' bowling Cricinfo lists have our bowlers made it on to -

Worst economy rate in an innings
4. Ali - 12.00
10. Mahmood - 11.42
50. Plunkett - 10.14

Worst career bowling average
21. Radford - 115.00
24. Solanki - 105.00
37. Jesty - 93.00
48. Bresnan - 84.50

Worst career strike rate
no England bowlers

Worst career economy rate -
3. Mahmood - 5.85
4. Plunkett - 5.85
22. Hoggard - 5.29
42. Broad - 5.09
52. Harmison - 5.05
58. Collingwood - 5.02

Worst career bowling average
23. Willey - 50.69
35. Capel - 47.35
63. Gooch - 42.11
70. Irani - 41.20
73. Reeve - 41.00
77. Panesar - 40.83
84. Collingwood - 40.30

Most runs conceded in an innings
5. Harmison - 97
24. Anderson - 86
33. Broad - 84
35. Pringle - 83
57. Harmison - 81
71. Mahmood - 80

[Michelle Fivefer]

I presume the purpose of this exercise is to show that Anderson appears in only one category and he isn't even the "top" in that one.

[Minor Maggie]

Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer

I presume the purpose of this exercise is to show that Anderson appears in only one category and he isn't even the "top" in that one.

At least he hasn't fallen to the depths of Plunkett and Mahmood!

[Aidan11]

He's not far away

[1000yardstare]

What grounds do our bowlers like in England -

Lords
Anderson - 14 wickets at 25.21
Tremlett - 4 wickets at 26.00
Sidebottom - 6 wickets at 28.50
Hoggard - 37 wickets at 31.08
Harmison - 31 wickets at 31.45
Mahmood - 5 wickets at 33.60
Panesar - 12 wickets at 35.75
Plunkett - 5 wickets at 82.20

The Oval
Harmison - 18 wickets at 24.38
Anderson - 13 wickets at 34.23
Hoggard - 10 wickets at 39.90
Mahmood - 2 wickets at 50.50
Tremlett - 3 wickets at 63.33
Sidebottom - 1 wicket at 93.00
Panesar - 3 wickets at 106.66

Old Trafford
Panesar - 18 wickets at 15.15
Harmison - 24 wickets at 19.83
Hoggard - 17 wickets at 33.17
Sidebottom - 3 wickets at 33.66
Anderson - 1 wicket at 71.00
Plunkett - 1 wicket at 100.00

Headingley
Sidebottom - 6 wickets at 10.75
Plunkett - 4 wickets at 15.00
Mahmood - 6 wickets at 21.66
Panesar - 7 wickets at 26.71
Harmison - 13 wickets at 32.84
Hoggard - 9 wickets at 43.22
Anderson - 2 wickets at 59.50

Riverside
Panesar - 6 wickets at 13.13
Hoggard - 13 wickets at 14.07
Anderson - 6 wickets at 14.16
Harmison - 16 wickets at 23.18
Sidebottom - 5 wickets at 25.60

Trent Bridge
Tremlett - 6 wickets at 15.33
Panesar - 9 wickets at 20.22
Plunkett - 4 wickets at 25.25
Harmison - 17 wickets at 26.94
Anderson - 8 wickets at 34.50
Hoggard - 16 wickets at 37.62
Sidebottom - 1 wicket at 103.00

Edgbaston
Plunkett - 6 wickets at 10.00
Mahmood - 2 wickets at 22.00
Hoggard - 20 wickets at 23.15
Panesar - 3 wickets at 26.66
Anderson - 3 wickets at 63.00
Harmison - 5 wickets at 68.20