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Old 19th April 2014, 19:55   #121
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Hell, I'm not advocating an XI of Darren Sammy's swinging from the off but I'd like to see people play with less of the fear and insecurity that's riddled the side in the past year. If we are rebuilding, as we keep getting told, then there is more to it than winning. If the malaise of continues, then the problems run deeper than sacking a player and switching the coach.
I agree. England should be building with a view toward the next Ashes series not looking to score a couple of quick series victories that might just be a case of papering over the cracks. Those in charge should have the guts to come out and say England are rebuilding and that there may be some rum results along the way but it is with a view to the Ashes.
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Old 19th April 2014, 21:42   #122
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They stand for election. At one time the ECB was full of Welshmen. Nothing wrong with that of course but one day they came together and said "I know. Let's make Glamorgan a test match ground". Another one said "I have an even better idea. Let's make Glamorgan a test match ground AND give them an Ashes test in the upcoming series"

I almost ruptured an artery when this news broke.
I think you just broke that news. Previously I had heard it happened in a rather different way.

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I agree. England should be building with a view toward the next Ashes series not looking to score a couple of quick series victories that might just be a case of papering over the cracks. Those in charge should have the guts to come out and say England are rebuilding and that there may be some rum results along the way but it is with a view to the Ashes.
I'm sick of the Ashes but I hear the next Ashes series is in about 10 minutes in any case. Can't we just play our best XI and give it our best shot in every series, regardless of the oppo? I've yet to hear any good arguments against it, and it's an approach that has been known to work against Australia too.

I have an Australian friend who went through a period of saying to me "Australia are rebuilding". He was mistaking "rebuilding" for "rubbish". When Australia then subsequently became good again, it wasn't because they had been "rebuilding". It was because for other reasons they stopped being rubbish.
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Old 19th April 2014, 22:40   #123
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I think you just broke that news. Previously I had heard it happened in a rather different way.

I'm sick of the Ashes but I hear the next Ashes series is in about 10 minutes in any case. Can't we just play our best XI and give it our best shot in every series, regardless of the oppo? I've yet to hear any good arguments against it, and it's an approach that has been known to work against Australia too.

I have an Australian friend who went through a period of saying to me "Australia are rebuilding". He was mistaking "rebuilding" for "rubbish". When Australia then subsequently became good again, it wasn't because they had been "rebuilding". It was because for other reasons they stopped being rubbish.
I think the current ECB rules stipulate we're only allowed to pick our best X not XI.
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Old 20th April 2014, 01:44   #124
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Telegraph

'Moores must now settle the futures of Englandís coaching staff, which Downton believes has swelled to a needlessly large number.'

Well at least Moores gets to choose his back-up staff. I think it can be comfortably cut by 50%.
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Old 20th April 2014, 10:07   #125
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Just read some quotes from our other Lord and Master Paul Downton who basically said that he watched every ball of the Sydney Test match and he'd never seen anyone look as disengaged and disinterested as KP and that the only 2 issues he had to deal with when he arrived were Andy Flower's future and what to do about Kevin.

Er... Really? What about the insipid captaincy? What about the fact that basically two players turned up for this series and one of them was a 23 debutant? There are definitely arguments for moving KP on, but the more you look at it (and the void of explanations from the top apart from winks and dark mutterings about evil actions) the more it looks like KP is simply a scapegoat for a whitewash.

Another interesting quote from yesterday was along the lines of 'we could afford KP in the past because we had strong leadership...' Bet Cooky will be thanking him for that line.
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Old 20th April 2014, 10:28   #126
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Downton's comments yesterday were incredible- more for what wasn't said than what was. Its become clear he was hired as a hatchet man to do the job that Flower, Clarke and the selectors were unwilling or unable to do.
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Old 20th April 2014, 10:34   #127
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Downton's comments yesterday were incredible- more for what wasn't said than what was. Its become clear he was hired as a hatchet man to do the job that Flower, Clarke and the selectors were unwilling or unable to do.
I'm inclined to agree although it's a shame that he couldn't see his way to axe Cook. It is a travesty that such a weak and ineffectual captain remains in place. But I'm done with England cricket for a while as I can't take any more of the PR disaster and mismanagement.
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Old 20th April 2014, 10:43   #128
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Hell, I'm not advocating an XI of Darren Sammy's swinging from the off but I'd like to see people play with less of the fear and insecurity that's riddled the side in the past year. If we are rebuilding, as we keep getting told, then there is more to it than winning. If the malaise of continues, then the problems run deeper than sacking a player and switching the coach.




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Just read some quotes from our other Lord and Master Paul Downton who basically said that he watched every ball of the Sydney Test match and he'd never seen anyone look as disengaged and disinterested as KP and that the only 2 issues he had to deal with when he arrived were Andy Flower's future and what to do about Kevin.
1. Who appointed him selector
2. I'd like to think selectors are past the days of judging players on one match, particularly if it's a dead rubber.
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Old 20th April 2014, 10:59   #129
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I'm inclined to agree although it's a shame that he couldn't see his way to axe Cook. It is a travesty that such a weak and ineffectual captain remains in place. But I'm done with England cricket for a while as I can't take any more of the PR disaster and mismanagement.
Yup pretty much how I feel at the mo. I hate myself for saying this but I almost hope England lose to Sri Lanka.
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Old 20th April 2014, 11:21   #130
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Yup pretty much how I feel at the mo. I hate myself for saying this but I almost hope England lose to Sri Lanka.
This is going to be temporary, once the series starts every english would want their team to win. That's the case in most of the country.
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Old 20th April 2014, 11:22   #131
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He's been given the kiss of death by Agnew saying it's a good fit.

On the positive, it gives 18 months or so* for Strauss to get himself prepared for the job.

It's amazing how much things have gone to pot since Hugh Morris resigned at the end of August.


*With easy fixtures for the first year, NZ at home is the first real opportunity for the wheels to fall off in tests. That follows on (a phrase we should get use to using for the Moores era) from a world cup we were supposedly building for. With an Ashes following immediately afterwards and Australia having won the Ashes so quickly after replacing their coach, realistically that's going to be Downton's first opportunity to redeem himself.
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Old 20th April 2014, 11:26   #132
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Just read some quotes from our other Lord and Master Paul Downton who basically said that he watched every ball of the Sydney Test match and he'd never seen anyone look as disengaged and disinterested as KP and that the only 2 issues he had to deal with when he arrived were Andy Flower's future and what to do about Kevin.

Er... Really? What about the insipid captaincy? What about the fact that basically two players turned up for this series and one of them was a 23 debutant? There are definitely arguments for moving KP on, but the more you look at it (and the void of explanations from the top apart from winks and dark mutterings about evil actions) the more it looks like KP is simply a scapegoat for a whitewash.

Another interesting quote from yesterday was along the lines of 'we could afford KP in the past because we had strong leadership...' Bet Cooky will be thanking him for that line.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5DMHoeP7-J...fDumbBlind.jpg

Messrs Whittaker, Cook and Downton.
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Old 20th April 2014, 11:33   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebras V2.0 View Post
Just read some quotes from our other Lord and Master Paul Downton who basically said that he watched every ball of the Sydney Test match and he'd never seen anyone look as disengaged and disinterested as KP and that the only 2 issues he had to deal with when he arrived were Andy Flower's future and what to do about Kevin.

Er... Really? What about the insipid captaincy? What about the fact that basically two players turned up for this series and one of them was a 23 debutant? There are definitely arguments for moving KP on, but the more you look at it (and the void of explanations from the top apart from winks and dark mutterings about evil actions) the more it looks like KP is simply a scapegoat for a whitewash.

Another interesting quote from yesterday was along the lines of 'we could afford KP in the past because we had strong leadership...' Bet Cooky will be thanking him for that line.
Downton is disconnected from his brain. He is saying that KP can no longer be accommodated because it is now a weak team with weak leadership.

Prior couldn't sight the ball. Trott was too afraid to sight the ball. Swann retired midway. A foolish captain Cook(Girl). He was just waiting on his bottom for the test match wins to land on his lap. How are these not better examples of disengagement?

KP was box office and made an ordinary English team interesting. Its like ManU sacking Rooney because they had a poor season - its completely crazy.

RIP English cricket and fans.
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Old 20th April 2014, 11:38   #134
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I think the current ECB rules stipulate we're only allowed to pick our best X not XI.
I suppose best XI would be a team, i.e. not necessarily the best 11 cricketers considered in isolation.
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Old 20th April 2014, 11:46   #135
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This is going to be temporary, once the series starts every english would want their team to win. That's the case in most of the country.
Yeah, I find this revolutionary defeatism a bit misplaced. For my part, having parted with serious shekels for Lord's Test tickets, my immediate hope is to see enthralling cricket first, with the secondary hope being an England win. Pujara making 150 and then Broad taking 6-57, that kind of thing.
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Old 20th April 2014, 11:47   #136
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I suppose best XI would be a team, i.e. not necessarily the best 11 cricketers considered in isolation.
High was their spirits of the rest of the squad[excluding the disengaged kp] that it still remains a mystery that they lost. Best XI would be a team of best cricketers with a great captain to handle the rest.

Best examples:

Saurav Ganguly
Mike brearley
Clive llyod.

KP was removed just to make cook look brilliant in front of young players. I wish all the best to every English fans as your team is going forward with the weakest(Girl) captain in the cricket history.
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Old 20th April 2014, 11:48   #137
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... KP was removed just to make cook look brilliant in front of young players. ...
Finally someone's explained the great mystery. Thank you for that. It all makes sense now.
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Old 20th April 2014, 12:13   #138
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Finally someone's explained the great mystery. Thank you for that. It all makes sense now.
Please get either Clive Lloyd or Mike Brealey to have leadership seminars for all the potential leaders to teach how to manage difficult players as there always be difficult players.
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Old 20th April 2014, 12:23   #139
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Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
I think you just broke that news. Previously I had heard it happened in a rather different way.

I'm sick of the Ashes but I hear the next Ashes series is in about 10 minutes in any case. Can't we just play our best XI and give it our best shot in every series, regardless of the oppo? I've yet to hear any good arguments against it, and it's an approach that has been known to work against Australia too.

I have an Australian friend who went through a period of saying to me "Australia are rebuilding". He was mistaking "rebuilding" for "rubbish". When Australia then subsequently became good again, it wasn't because they had been "rebuilding". It was because for other reasons they stopped being rubbish.
Does anybody actually, categorically, know what is England's best XI?
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Old 20th April 2014, 12:25   #140
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Originally Posted by Zebras V2.0 View Post
Just read some quotes from our other Lord and Master Paul Downton who basically said that he watched every ball of the Sydney Test match and he'd never seen anyone look as disengaged and disinterested as KP and that the only 2 issues he had to deal with when he arrived were Andy Flower's future and what to do about Kevin.

Er... Really? What about the insipid captaincy? What about the fact that basically two players turned up for this series and one of them was a 23 debutant? There are definitely arguments for moving KP on, but the more you look at it (and the void of explanations from the top apart from winks and dark mutterings about evil actions) the more it looks like KP is simply a scapegoat for a whitewash.

Another interesting quote from yesterday was along the lines of 'we could afford KP in the past because we had strong leadership...' Bet Cooky will be thanking him for that line.
Exactly, everyone else's failings are being swept under the carpet whilst the KP issue trundles on / people are trying to 'move on' from the debacle. Think England need to be sponsored by Teflon rather than Waitrose.
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