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Old 24th August 2015, 11:29   #41
1000yardstare
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Bayliss said he is considering Ali at the top of the order must mean Lyth is gone. You would wonder if that is only for the UAE. I would be worried if it was for SA as well.
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Old 24th August 2015, 11:35   #42
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So I see, but playing and missing at such an extraordinarily high proportion of deliveries in the Ashes is not an encouraging observation for anyone wishing to find a new partner for Cook at the top of the order.
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Old 25th August 2015, 07:39   #43
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Can someone explain why we shouldn't use different openers vs Pakistan and in SA please? Surely we pick the side most likely to win? In uae we need two spin options so for that series we will pick different bowling line up so why not batting?

How would an opener making runs in uae be a guide to whether they will in sa?

Why the fascination in building for the future? Surely we pick best side for each tour?
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Old 25th August 2015, 07:49   #44
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Can someone explain why we shouldn't use different openers vs Pakistan and in SA please? Surely we pick the side most likely to win? In uae we need two spin options so for that series we will pick different bowling line up so why not batting?

How would an opener making runs in uae be a guide to whether they will in sa?

Why the fascination in building for the future? Surely we pick best side for each tour?
I don't think we are so rich with options as to make this a genuine tactic. If Ali opens in UAE and does passably well he will own in south Africa, regardless of whether he is the right choice.
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Old 25th August 2015, 10:10   #45
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Can someone explain why we shouldn't use different openers vs Pakistan and in SA please? Surely we pick the side most likely to win? In uae we need two spin options so for that series we will pick different bowling line up so why not batting?

How would an opener making runs in uae be a guide to whether they will in sa?

Why the fascination in building for the future? Surely we pick best side for each tour?
I think you are on to something. However, it would have implications not just for the openers but for several players in the middle order as well, and for the wicket keeper. Of the England team that just played at the Oval, the only ones I would put straight onto the team sheet for the UAE would be: Cook, Root, Ali (as a batsman), and Broad. I'd be willing to recall Carberry and Compton, since they're a couple of the most boring and patient players we've had in recent years, and Tredwell, since he's our most accurate test spinner since Panesar. And so on. But of course it's not going to happen. Apart from anything else, the central contracts system effectively forbids it. Losing badly in the UAE will be called part of the learning curve for our brave new team, during which they learn that they get to stay in the team regardless of whether they should be in it.
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Old 25th August 2015, 10:20   #46
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Apart from anything else, the central contracts system effectively forbids it. Losing badly in the UAE will be called part of the learning curve for our brave new team, during which they learn that they get to stay in the team regardless of whether they should be in it.
We live in different times, don't we? After the Oval Test finished, Michael Clarke spoke of his faith in "this group of players" for the future. I immediately though "well, that's a bit presumptuous...for all you know, CA might be looking to disard three quarters of the squad". But, of course, they won't in this central contracts era.

The other day, I was looking back nostalgically at the last occasion when England hosted Ashes series just two years apart. Of the England XI that contested the 1st Test of the 1975 series, only three were still in the side for the final Test of the (urn regaining) 1977 series.
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Old 25th August 2015, 13:38   #47
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Of course we regularly smashed Pakistan away and won Ashes after Ashes when central contracts weren't around.
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Old 25th August 2015, 15:10   #48
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Of course we regularly smashed Pakistan away and won Ashes after Ashes when central contracts weren't around.
Disregarding the Ashes for now (you were sick of the Ashes before the series that's just finished started, so you must be well fed up of them now, and anyway they're even more beside the point of this thread than this post is), our away test series against Pakistan:

BEFORE CENTRAL CONTRACTS

1961--62 Eng 1--0 (3)
1968--69 drawn 0--0 (3)
1972--73 drawn 0--0 (3)
1977--78 drawn 0--0 (3)
1983--84 Pak 1--0 (3)
1987--88 Pak 1--0 (3)

SINCE CENTRAL CONTRACTS

2000--01 Eng 1--0 (3)
2005--06 Pak 2--0 (3)

IN UAE

2011--12 Pak 3--0 (3)

So in these series we've beaten Pakistan once before and once after the introduction of central contracts. And they've beaten us twice before and twice after. But the recent trend is for us to get worse. The only ways open to us now are (a) remain as bad as we could possibly be, or (b) improve. And your point is ... ?
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Old 25th August 2015, 17:12   #49
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How about home series? We've had two comfortable wins and a draw since CCs but if I recall two heavy defeats in the 90s prior. CCs aren't perfect and do limit selector flexibility but methinks some look back to a time before with rose-tinted glasses.
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Old 25th August 2015, 18:32   #50
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I don't get why Carberry and Compton would be forbidden from playing for England because of central contracts. They both made their debut in the central contract era, both had similar amount of matches, didn't score many runs, got replaced, and the players since then have also had similar opportunity as them and not received central contracts either. I don't see anyone as having had preference over them due to the system. Central contracts are generally only handed out once a player has played a certain amount of matches, though quick bowlers on the fringe may get given a contract so they can control their workload.

I got the impression that central contracts were being seen as a negative when results and consistency seems to have improved since they came in, albeit with dips along the way. Anyway, it's gone slightly off topic.
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Old 25th August 2015, 18:44   #51
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Root is by far the best choice to open. Morgan is due a recall and can fill that number four spot.
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Old 25th August 2015, 19:28   #52
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Root is by far the best choice to open. Morgan is due a recall and can fill that number four spot.
Even Morgan's family doesn't believe that. I can't see even millions of ODI and T20 runs (which are by no means inevitably due), getting him anywhere near a test recall.
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Old 25th August 2015, 20:03   #53
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Root is by far the best choice to open. Morgan is due a recall and can fill that number four spot.
No he isn't. No he can't.
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Old 25th August 2015, 20:04   #54
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I'd bring back Compton.
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Old 25th August 2015, 20:45   #55
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I'd bring back Compton.
Denis, yes
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Old 25th August 2015, 22:26   #56
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Denis, yes
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 25th August 2015, 23:41   #57
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Root is by far the best choice to open. Morgan is due a recall and can fill that number four spot.
From the person who said we would get thrashed in the ashes without kp....hasn't Morgan been dropped cough sorry rested by Middlesex...
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Old 26th August 2015, 07:05   #58
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From the person who said we would get thrashed in the ashes without kp....hasn't Morgan been dropped cough sorry rested by Middlesex...
Yup and in the format that is supposedly his forté and in which he captains the national side.

If county form is so redundant to selection, there's hope for James Tredwell yet.
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Old 26th August 2015, 09:31   #59
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... Morgan is due a recall and can fill that number four spot.
That would be following the old tradition by which a player is automatically recalled after a certain period of time, however he has performed, I suppose.
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