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Old 28th August 2017, 10:21   #281
Summer of '77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelstar View Post
Beggars belief when I heard some pundit or commentator say that county cricketers are behind Stoneman's selection I think it was, as if that is some kind of guarantee he was the right pick. Opinion, popular or otherwise, among peers is hardly proof, if we took the opinions of 18 counties and 20 football clubs we'd have England sides of about 30+ players..........

Maybe England are in dire straits when it comes to the next England batsmen, or maybe they simply don't go out and scrutinise technique enough. Maybe technique simply isn't scrutinised enough at county level to be able to pick in which case maybe we need more representative matches at the front of the season and not out in timbukblinkingtu either
I'm not suggesting that county players should pick the England team; rather that the grapevine should be exploited to flag up candidates who appear to look the part. It's then down to those in charge of team England to scrutinise said candidates. Back in 1975, when David Steele was plucked from obscurity to face Thomson & Lillee in a broken England team, it was widely believed to be a desperate selection by clueless panel. In fact, England skipper Tony Greig had made a point of canvassing all the county skippers to ask which batsman their seamers had most difficulty in dislodging over that, and the previous season. Boycott, of course, topped the list but was unavailable but Steele came second almost every time. The skippers gave their opinion and the England management made a call.

I can't help thinking with Westley - and possibly other failed batting candidates - the selectors have simply thought "Scoring some runs in a winning team" without really digging any deeper. It's also worrying that various commentators picked up on his flawed technique with wide eyed awe during his first Test. I'd have expected people whose occupation is 'cricketing pundit' to also have noticed this well before he was selected. Is anyone of influence actually watching county cricket?
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Old 28th August 2017, 10:41   #282
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I think Stokes has a big say regarding getting the Durham players into the side. Expect Stoneman, Jennings and Wood to go to Australia. Root will want Ballance. Expect Hameed to be in the Lions.
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Old 28th August 2017, 10:51   #283
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Or they could go back to the Fletcher/Moores way and identify younger players who have something about them and back those players in test cricket rather than run through county hacks whose faults are probably too ingrained.
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Old 28th August 2017, 11:03   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer of '77 View Post
I'm not suggesting that county players should pick the England team; rather that the grapevine should be exploited to flag up candidates who appear to look the part. It's then down to those in charge of team England to scrutinise said candidates. Back in 1975, when David Steele was plucked from obscurity to face Thomson & Lillee in a broken England team, it was widely believed to be a desperate selection by clueless panel. In fact, England skipper Tony Greig had made a point of canvassing all the county skippers to ask which batsman their seamers had most difficulty in dislodging over that, and the previous season. Boycott, of course, topped the list but was unavailable but Steele came second almost every time. The skippers gave their opinion and the England management made a call.

I can't help thinking with Westley - and possibly other failed batting candidates - the selectors have simply thought "Scoring some runs in a winning team" without really digging any deeper. It's also worrying that various commentators picked up on his flawed technique with wide eyed awe during his first Test. I'd have expected people whose occupation is 'cricketing pundit' to also have noticed this well before he was selected. Is anyone of influence actually watching county cricket?
I used to see Geoff Miller quite a lot but rather less of his successor whose name I have just forgotten.
I suspect a lot of decisions are made on the evidence of videos and TV broadcasts. Anyone who watches county cricket in the flesh knows that one's own eyes see much more than the camera which is subject to a director's pick of shot.
I'm interested in how players comport themselves, how they fit in with their teammates and how they seek to influences matters. County coaches should be a good source of knowledge but they're hardly unbiased. I just get the feeling at the moment that the selectors are looking at the averages and little more, so are
possibly less informed than a reasonably knowledgable county watcher.
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Old 28th August 2017, 11:05   #285
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Quote:
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Should get a big Mondáy bank hol crowd now. Day 5 probable.
They would do if they weren't charging fifteen quid to get in!

It's the telly for me. This time we have a game worth watching and, with it being played at Headingley, no chance of the weather interfering.

Still not sure being up against a much improved West Indies side is great preparation for the Ashes and a reliable guide to the form (ability, even) of those playing for their places in the Ashes squad.
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Old 28th August 2017, 11:05   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by square leg umpire View Post
they say his technical problem was known at county level. Which begs the question why county bowlers were unable to exploit it?
But they were.

From his 9 first-class matches this season:

v Durham MCCU, lbw to Xavier Owen, 0, c off Darrel Williams 34
v Lancashire c wk b Jimmy Anderson 15
v Somerset b Roelof van der Merwe 10
v Middlesex b Steve Finn 31, lbw Toby Roland-Jones 13
v Surrey c wk b Sam Curran 16
v Surrey c wk b Mark Footitt 23
v Warwickshire c off Jeetan Patel 4

I haven't seen these (though I believe foootage of the Championship games should be available if one were to root it out) so of course I don't know how these dismissals went (though Summer of '77 probably does for some of them).

Of course he has also scored two tons and two 50s. Nevertheless those scores show that he was far from Mr Invincible.
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Old 28th August 2017, 11:22   #287
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They would do if they weren't charging fifteen quid to get in!
That's remarkably inexpensive for a Test match in England, Then again, when you add in the cost of fancy dress hire, it probably makes for a pricey day out.
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Old 28th August 2017, 11:25   #288
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That's remarkably inexpensive for a Test match in England, Then again, when you add in the cost of fancy dress hire, it probably makes for a pricey day out.
It is a shame we will not get to see D/L's amazing costume on the TV today.
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Old 28th August 2017, 11:51   #289
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Originally Posted by Summer of '77 View Post
That's remarkably inexpensive for a Test match in England, Then again, when you add in the cost of fancy dress hire, it probably makes for a pricey day out.
They said on the TV it's also a fiver for students. I was extremely tempted to get a train up today but it didn't quite work - might have a look tomorrow.
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Old 28th August 2017, 11:55   #290
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Not the biggest crowd at the moment. A bit cloudy now when it was sunny and warm at 8am.

It is the west Indian carnival today in leeds so no surprise in the lack of West Indies fans.
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Old 28th August 2017, 11:55   #291
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Originally Posted by Summer of '77 View Post
That's remarkably inexpensive for a Test match in England, Then again, when you add in the cost of fancy dress hire, it probably makes for a pricey day out.
It's a fortune in Yorkshire. I doubt I'd have spent any money on a dress, like some chaps seem to have done.

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It is a shame we will not get to see D/L's amazing costume on the TV today.
I'd probably have been attired and coiffured a little like this chap...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4tD2Hbg_A
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:00   #292
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It's a fortune in Yorkshire. I doubt I'd have spent any money on a dress, like some chaps seem to have done.


I'd probably have been attired and coiffured a little like this chap...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4tD2Hbg_A
But slightly more erudite right?
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:04   #293
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I have the advantage over him, I think. I've not only been to Leeds; I live there!
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:06   #294
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The chairman of selectors is at headingley so no idea who is watching the other possible players in the championship today.
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:07   #295
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Just noticed Root had his 50.

Seems to have passed everyone else by as well.
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:22   #296
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MPV suggesting Hayles will be back for Lords - usually has an inside line to the selectors.
I'm not sure Vaughan does have inside knowledge but it would be just like England to recall Hales (no y) at 3 when he has been batting 5 for Notts.
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:27   #297
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It's a fortune in Yorkshire. I doubt I'd have spent any money on a dress, like some chaps seem to have done.
It's the same as the gate price for Championship matches at Leeds.

Then again, the CC is arguably a better spectacle.
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:34   #298
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Two wickets already today for Jofra Archer. Does anyone know if WI have considered calling him up or if he is definitely waiting for his England qualification period?
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:38   #299
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I'm not suggesting that county players should pick the England team; rather that the grapevine should be exploited to flag up candidates who appear to look the part. It's then down to those in charge of team England to scrutinise said candidates. Back in 1975, when David Steele was plucked from obscurity to face Thomson & Lillee in a broken England team, it was widely believed to be a desperate selection by clueless panel. In fact, England skipper Tony Greig had made a point of canvassing all the county skippers to ask which batsman their seamers had most difficulty in dislodging over that, and the previous season. Boycott, of course, topped the list but was unavailable but Steele came second almost every time. The skippers gave their opinion and the England management made a call.

I can't help thinking with Westley - and possibly other failed batting candidates - the selectors have simply thought "Scoring some runs in a winning team" without really digging any deeper. It's also worrying that various commentators picked up on his flawed technique with wide eyed awe during his first Test. I'd have expected people whose occupation is 'cricketing pundit' to also have noticed this well before he was selected. Is anyone of influence actually watching county cricket?
To be fair, Simon Hughes reckons he's spoken to county umpires and players and they picked out Westley and Stoneman as the people to pick. Perhaps they just are the best out there.
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Old 28th August 2017, 12:39   #300
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Westley's not even the best batsman at Essex (discounting Cook).
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