Cricket 24/7  

Welcome to the Cricket 24/7.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. There are also more forums available to members, such as the Lounge - where members chat about just about anything under the sun except cricket!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   Cricket 24/7 > Cricket Discussion Forums > International Cricket
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar Casino Articles Terms of Use Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10th July 2017, 00:13   #381
JRC67
International Material
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielVettoriSpin View Post
Duminy is such a spud.

There really aren't that many batsmen with worse averages batting in the top 7.

Code:
JP Duminy (SA) 		2008-2017 	45 	29.52	spud
MJ Guptill (NZ) 	2009-2016 	47  	29.38  	opener, spud
RS Mahanama (SL) 	1986-1998 	51 	29.27 	spud
MV Boucher (SA) 	1998-2012 	117 	28.74	keeper
GJ Whittall (ZIM) 	1993-2002 	43 	28.39  	all-rounder
RP Arnold (SL) 		1997-2004 	44  	28.35 	delightful spud
IA Healy (AUS) 		1988-1999 	95  	28.10	keeper 
AW Nourse (SA) 		1902-1924 	42  	27.95 	all-rounder, different era
RC Russell (ENG) 	1988-1998 	44  	27.74	keeper 
AC Parore (NZ) 		1992-2002 	62 	27.32	keeper 
MR Ramprakash (ENG) 	1991-2002 	52 	27.32	spud 
ADR Campbell (ZIM) 	1992-2002 	60 	27.21 	zimbabwean
KR Rutherford (NZ) 	1985-1995 	55 	27.08	spud  
Imtiaz Ahmed (PAK) 	1952-1962 	41 	26.71 	keeper
RS Kaluwitharana (SL) 	1992-2004 	47 	26.61 	keeper
RW Marsh (AUS) 		1970-1983 	89 	26.59	keeper 
SMH Kirmani (INDIA) 	1976-1985 	40 	26.38 	keeper
D Ganga (WI) 		1998-2008 	47 	25.71	spud  
D Ramdin (WI) 		2005-2016 	63 	25.57	keeper 
SE Gregory (AUS) 	1890-1912 	56 	25.53 	different era
Mohammad Ashraful (BD) 	2001-2013 	61 	24.00 	all round spud
R Illingworth (ENG) 	1959-1973 	42 	23.89	all-rounder
R Benaud (AUS) 		1952-1964 	46 	23.26	all-rounder 
DL Murray (WI) 		1963-1980 	52 	23.18 	keeper
Javed Omar (BDESH) 	2001-2007 	40 	22.05  	spud supreme
TG Evans (ENG) 		1947-1959 	59 	19.12 	keeper
That's a table of all players who've batting 40 plus matches in slots 1-7 in the batting order.

Take out the keepers, and you're left with some real batting spuds. Duminy is in exalted spud-company there. How does he keep getting selected?
He does average 243 at 8 though and always does well against the Aussies!
JRC67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 00:14   #382
Michelle Fivefer
Posting Goddess
 
Michelle Fivefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North West England
Team(s): England, Lancashire
Posts: 42,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyluke View Post
..
Oh I see.

My post was in response to a couple of posts criticising Root's tactics and I referred to his lack of captaincy experience and pointed to his strengths, and was not a criticism. When he first "burst on to the scene" as the tabloids would term it, he certainly was the media darling. The commentators were positively drooling, Atherton in particular, whose voice would go all gooey when he talked about him.

Even today, after gaining his first test match victory as England captain, when he was interviewed on TMS, Agnew was using that indulgent voice normally reserved for a favourite godson or nephew. They still think he is about 12.
__________________
As balanced and focused as the next man
Michelle Fivefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 00:28   #383
DanielVettoriSpin
International Cricketer
 
DanielVettoriSpin's Avatar
DeviousVettoriSpin plots the downfall of another unfortunate
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wellington, NZ
Team(s): New Zealand, Essex & England
Posts: 2,679
Send a message via Yahoo to DanielVettoriSpin
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRC67 View Post
He does average 243 at 8 though and always does well against the Aussies!
Well, he's either a batsman or he's not. He seems to fare reasonably well in Australia, but other than that not. Particularly badly against England, and hasn't had a really good year since 2012. I just think if you're in the exalted company of Daren Ganga and Javed Omar, perhaps Test match batting isn't for you.
__________________
Supporting
Essex County Cricket Club, Wellington, Peter Such and Iain O'Brien
DanielVettoriSpin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 01:01   #384
luckyluke
Established International
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
Oh I see.

My post was in response to a couple of posts criticising Root's tactics and I referred to his lack of captaincy experience and pointed to his strengths, and was not a criticism. When he first "burst on to the scene" as the tabloids would term it, he certainly was the media darling. The commentators were positively drooling, Atherton in particular, whose voice would go all gooey when he talked about him.

Even today, after gaining his first test match victory as England captain, when he was interviewed on TMS, Agnew was using that indulgent voice normally reserved for a favourite godson or nephew. They still think he is about 12.
He does look and sound like he's 12 tbf
__________________
Most heartless decision:

In a women's league match in Denmark, a heavily pregnant woman arrived at the crease, and asked for a runner. Her request was denied, on the grounds that her incapacity had not occured during the course of the match.
luckyluke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 01:16   #385
mustardcharlie
Established International
 
mustardcharlie's Avatar
You know there ain't no devil: It's just God when he's drun
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bedfordshire
Team(s): Yorkshire, England, LUFC, Otley RFC.
Age: 66
Posts: 4,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyluke View Post
Hope he didn't treat your referral with to much scorn!

Long days weds/thurs. just do fri/sat/sun normally, but I did thurs as a swap. Off down to my parents in Nottingham for Saturday at TB to look forward to though.

Dad's going on Friday too so game will probably have been won by then - he has outrageous luck - saw broads 8fer, Hales's 170 ODI innings, Fred's Ashes century in 2005...
My dad (RIP) always picked the wrong day. Headingley 1981. Give you a guess which day we saw. ("There's only Boycott in the team that can bat. This Botham lad is a decent bowler, but 'ee can't bat") Took the **** out of him for years with that one. He was a well known groundsman, so he had to be "around" at weekends. Occasionally he would "delegate".

I love Trent Bridge though. Headingley/Scarborough is home. Something always happens there (TB), plus it's a pretty ground within reach of some pleasant ale- houses if you want to let the traffic die down. If anyone has a spare ticket just let me know...

Much as I love to see the win, I have concerns. England just seem to lose too many wickets in the first 2 hours of a day.
__________________
Answers 3d
Answers (requiring thought) 6d
Answers (correct) 1s
mustardcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 01:17   #386
AJ101
International Material
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Zebrorter View Post
And they still won't drop him with his mediocre beard, gifted wickets and lucky runs even though there are 20ish better batsmen better than him and at least one better spinner.

Until we stop hamstringing ourselves and drop the player that embodies the weaknesses that were so brutally and obviously exposed by India then we are doomed to continue our poor run in test cricket.
Sorry you're right of course we should have made more changes to a losing team.
AJ101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 03:40   #387
sharky
Posting God
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Sussex
Team(s): Sussex, England
Posts: 10,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielVettoriSpin View Post
Well, he's either a batsman or he's not. He seems to fare reasonably well in Australia, but other than that not. Particularly badly against England, and hasn't had a really good year since 2012. I just think if you're in the exalted company of Daren Ganga and Javed Omar, perhaps Test match batting isn't for you.
I watched quite a bit of him this winter and he was batting like God. He's one of those players who looks great when he gets going. I suspect he's been shoehorned into the team a lot because of the quota and his off spin.
__________________
She was like a candle in the wind...Unreliable
sharky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 04:16   #388
stevieh
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Team(s): England, Kent, Canada
Posts: 6,958
That was the first 10 wicket haul at Lord's for an England spinner since Derek Underwood in1974. I'll leave it to the reader to provide the details and the opposition on that occasion.
stevieh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 07:34   #389
Rebelstar
International Material
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieh View Post
That was the first 10 wicket haul at Lord's for an England spinner since Derek Underwood in1974. I'll leave it to the reader to provide the details and the opposition on that occasion.
Says as much about the quality of English spin between then and now as it does about Ali's performance. He bowled well enough, I'd have still given the MOTM award to Root whose 190 was scored when England were in trouble and gave England the total that gave them control.

Also it's only 1 more wicket than Swann took against Pakistan in 2010 (4/12 and 5/62) and again against Australia in 2013 (5/44 and 4/78) I mean fair play to Ali, got a few batsmen out, a few got themselves out, but then it was ever thus with him. If we're looking at records, when did a team last get bowled out at Lords with no batsmen making more than 21?

Anyway, both sets of batsmen did their best to make that pitch look worse than it was. Might have had a few balls keep low and not been the easiest to bat on, but some pretty poor shots were played and no way there should have been 19 wickets.

I suppose there were a couple of unlucky dismissals, a strangle down the legside, the ball playing pinball into the stumps, one or two keeping low, but generally I think once a few wickets fell the pitch was in a lot of batsmen's heads
Rebelstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 07:37   #390
Rebelstar
International Material
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,668
Same squad announced for the 2nd Test, guess there's no real surprise in that.
Rebelstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 07:47   #391
Fatslogger
Self Confessed Mentalist
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hitchin
Team(s): England and Liverpool
Age: 42
Posts: 43,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelstar View Post
Says as much about the quality of English spin between then and now as it does about Ali's performance. He bowled well enough, I'd have still given the MOTM award to Root whose 190 was scored when England were in trouble and gave England the total that gave them control.

Also it's only 1 more wicket than Swann took against Pakistan in 2010 (4/12 and 5/62) and again against Australia in 2013 (5/44 and 4/78) I mean fair play to Ali, got a few batsmen out, a few got themselves out, but then it was ever thus with him. If we're looking at records, when did a team last get bowled out at Lords with no batsmen making more than 21?

Anyway, both sets of batsmen did their best to make that pitch look worse than it was. Might have had a few balls keep low and not been the easiest to bat on, but some pretty poor shots were played and no way there should have been 19 wickets.

I suppose there were a couple of unlucky dismissals, a strangle down the legside, the ball playing pinball into the stumps, one or two keeping low, but generally I think once a few wickets fell the pitch was in a lot of batsmen's heads
How very ungenerous of you. Firstly, Root's excellent first innings recovery innings was largely played in company with a very good innings from Moeen, which you fail to mention but clearly puts him well over the top in MotM stakes, having produced both the second best innings in the game and the dominant bowling performance. Secondly, if you're going to down play Moeen's wickets because the batsmen played some bad shots (they do that more when the bowling is good and you overstate the case somewhat but still, yes there were some bad shots) then to be consistent you'd have to downgrade Root's innings massively given that he was dropped and out off a no ball.

Ten wicket hauls are fairly rare so don't think it's that surprising it's been so long but I suppose there were two of them at Lord's last year, one from an opposing spinner.
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Wilde
Fatslogger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 08:16   #392
JRC67
International Material
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielVettoriSpin View Post
Well, he's either a batsman or he's not. He seems to fare reasonably well in Australia, but other than that not. Particularly badly against England, and hasn't had a really good year since 2012. I just think if you're in the exalted company of Daren Ganga and Javed Omar, perhaps Test match batting isn't for you.
I suspect he's on borrowed time. He's basically a bad Moeen Ali.
JRC67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 08:18   #393
Ali TT
Posting God
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatslogger View Post
How very ungenerous of you. Firstly, Root's excellent first innings recovery innings was largely played in company with a very good innings from Moeen, which you fail to mention but clearly puts him well over the top in MotM stakes, having produced both the second best innings in the game and the dominant bowling performance. Secondly, if you're going to down play Moeen's wickets because the batsmen played some bad shots (they do that more when the bowling is good and you overstate the case somewhat but still, yes there were some bad shots) then to be consistent you'd have to downgrade Root's innings massively given that he was dropped and out off a no ball.

Ten wicket hauls are fairly rare so don't think it's that surprising it's been so long but I suppose there were two of them at Lord's last year, one from an opposing spinner.
I'm surprised RS didn't try and mash the stats to suggest that in some way Mo actually only took 2/100 in the match.
__________________
WARNING
Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea.
Ali TT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 08:23   #394
JRC67
International Material
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebelstar View Post
Says as much about the quality of English spin between then and now as it does about Ali's performance. He bowled well enough, I'd have still given the MOTM award to Root whose 190 was scored when England were in trouble and gave England the total that gave them control.

Also it's only 1 more wicket than Swann took against Pakistan in 2010 (4/12 and 5/62) and again against Australia in 2013 (5/44 and 4/78) I mean fair play to Ali, got a few batsmen out, a few got themselves out, but then it was ever thus with him. If we're looking at records, when did a team last get bowled out at Lords with no batsmen making more than 21?

Anyway, both sets of batsmen did their best to make that pitch look worse than it was. Might have had a few balls keep low and not been the easiest to bat on, but some pretty poor shots were played and no way there should have been 19 wickets.

I suppose there were a couple of unlucky dismissals, a strangle down the legside, the ball playing pinball into the stumps, one or two keeping low, but generally I think once a few wickets fell the pitch was in a lot of batsmen's heads
10 wicket hauls are the same as a double century for bowlers, so always deserve to be rewarded. For a slow right arm spinner to right handers and left arm spinners to left handers a batsman dragging the ball on to the stumps is a valid dismissal as you are taking the inside edge and beating the bat. When a quick gets a player caught at slip nobody says it was a bit fortunate and a spinner taking the inside edge to bowl someone is no different.
JRC67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 08:58   #395
WeAreKent
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 838
46,000 watching professional cricket in London yesterday - 30,000 at Lords and another 16,000 at the Oval.

These are begining to seem like golden days for the English game.

Just imagine 46,000 and more in the Olympic Stadium come 2020!
WeAreKent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 09:00   #396
Ali TT
Posting God
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRC67 View Post
10 wicket hauls are the same as a double century for bowlers, so always deserve to be rewarded. For a slow right arm spinner to right handers and left arm spinners to left handers a batsman dragging the ball on to the stumps is a valid dismissal as you are taking the inside edge and beating the bat. When a quick gets a player caught at slip nobody says it was a bit fortunate and a spinner taking the inside edge to bowl someone is no different.
Quite. Essentially the drag on comes from deceiving the batsman into cutting something that is too full or tight in the line. One would expect to see this type of dismissal occur on slow, low wickets like we've just had at Lords.

The Qdk wicket was lucky, but given how often bowlers' best balls go unrewarded, they deserve the odd wicket off a bad one
__________________
WARNING
Reading the above post may cause bouts of nausea.
Ali TT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 09:42   #397
D/L
World Class
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Leeds
Team(s): Yorkshire CCC & England, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC
Posts: 7,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
This was Root's first match as England captain, and he comes to the post with very little previous captaincy experience. He notoriously captained Yorkshire once in a CC game in which Middlesex successfully chased a target of nearly 500 (thanks mainly to a superb knock by Chris Rogers). But in this test his first innings 199 rescued a potentially disastrous situation and put England in a commanding position. Root has only ever played test cricket under Cook's captaincy, and what they have in common is an ability to lead from the front with the bat, an attribute that is not to be dismissed lightly.

However, since the day Root became a test cricketer he has been the darling of the media and can do no wrong, so questioning his on-field tactics would have been unlikely . It was, indeed, a slight surprise that any of them actually argued Moeen's case for MoM.
As far as what happens on the field, a county captain's job is far more onerous than a test captain's.

Re the MoM award, figures alone meant that it could go to nobody but Ali.

However, on such an inconsistently bouncing Bunsen, the main spinner should have taken most of the wickets.

Well done to him, though. Despite having all the advantages, he still had to put the ball in the right place for the wicket to do its work effectively.
D/L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 09:50   #398
Summer of '77
Legendary
 
Summer of '77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London-Essex
Team(s): Kent, Essex, Surrey Stars
Posts: 8,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by D/L View Post

Re the MoM award, figures alone meant that it could go to nobody but Ali.

However, on such an inconsistently bouncing Bunsen, the main spinner should have taken most of the wickets.

Well done to him, though. Despite having all the advantages, he still had to put the ball in the right place for the wicket to do its work effectively.
Agreed. There have been plenty of instances of spinners failing to take advantage of a profoundly helpful pitch. Laker against Australia at Leeds in 1948 is perhaps the example that proved most costly - to the team and the individual's career.
Summer of '77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 09:59   #399
Jock McTuffnel v3
World Class
 
Jock McTuffnel v3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cambridge
Team(s): England
Posts: 6,366
A few questions raised by this result

* How good/bad are South Africa ? Spoiler - their fielding is rank.

* Should we be concerned about that 3rd innings collapse ?

* Have England turned the corner or is it just more of the same inconsistency ?

* If that pitch wasn't at Lords would there be questions asked about its suitability for test cricket ?

* Is anyone buying 5th day tickets for the upcoming test at Lords vs The West Indies ?
__________________
Jock McTuffnel v3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2017, 10:30   #400
AJ101
International Material
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jock McTuffnel v3 View Post
A few questions raised by this result

* How good/bad are South Africa ? Spoiler - their fielding is rank.

* Should we be concerned about that 3rd innings collapse ?

* Have England turned the corner or is it just more of the same inconsistency ?

* If that pitch wasn't at Lords would there be questions asked about its suitability for test cricket ?

* Is anyone buying 5th day tickets for the upcoming test at Lords vs The West Indies ?
Pretty poor batting lineup and poor fielding neither of which are helped with the players injured. Their bowling lineup is still good.

Not really in that it's nothing new and no batsman we bring in seem to be good enough at 2/3/4.

See above.

Probably but it was more that it looked a day older than it was every day apart from the first rather than it being unsuitable from the start.

Not me but then I don't buy 5th day tickets beforehand anyway. I certainly won't be going to the MCC vs Afghanistan game at Lords tomorrow as that's being played on the test pitch apparently, I think Rashid Khan could have a rather good time of it if he plays!
AJ101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:58.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Cricket247.org