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Old 11th May 2016, 16:38   #2461
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Originally Posted by Michelle Fivefer View Post
BUT his betrayal of Strauss in texting SA players was inexcusable and unforgivable.
He was literally forgiven.

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It's hard not to take issue with people who sweep his treachery under the carpet just because he's a very good batsman and, for them, the best batsman they've ever seen and the best player in the world ever.
An example of where you let yourself down and resort to wumming. Kp's talent was only one aspect of the argument. It's one thing to disagree with arguments, it's another to dismiss those making them as fanatics or other disparaging terms you'd used.
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Old 11th May 2016, 17:03   #2462
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He was literally forgiven.



An example of where you let yourself down and resort to wumming. Kp's talent was only one aspect of the argument. It's one thing to disagree with arguments, it's another to dismiss those making them as fanatics or other disparaging terms you'd used.
Literally, he was reintegrated.

I don't resort to wumming, I make the mistake of responding to posts designed to wind me up.


Anyway this is the Ian Bell thread, so it's time to get back on topic or remain silent.
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Old 11th May 2016, 17:09   #2463
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I don't resort to wumming, I make the mistake of responding to posts designed to wind me up.
Different issues. Though I have sympathised with you previously on the latter.
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Old 11th May 2016, 17:29   #2464
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I certainly don't consider you to be a wummer (certainly compared to CDogg), but Ali was entirely justified to point out the double standards.
Why I am I a wummer just because I have different opinions to you on some issues? I never try to force my opinions on people, often change my point of view if someone presents a good argument and never insult anyone personally. I also try to refrain from posting things for the sole purpose of winding people up.
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Old 11th May 2016, 17:51   #2465
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I don't hate Root, but would like him a lot more if the pundits, particularly Athers and Nasser, weren't infatuated with him. ...
So let me get this right - you'd like someone more if it weren't for the actions of others?
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Old 11th May 2016, 17:57   #2466
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So let me get this right - you'd like someone more if it weren't for the actions of others?
I'm being a little bit facetious but the indulgent doting can be a bit grating, Also the Rooooooooot growl. Plus he plays for Yorkshire. He's quite a good player though.
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Old 11th May 2016, 17:59   #2467
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Why I am I a wummer just because I have different opinions to you on some issues? I never try to force my opinions on people, often change my point of view if someone presents a good argument and never insult anyone personally. I also try to refrain from posting things for the sole purpose of winding people up.
Oh, sorry, CDogg, I meant to say in an earlier post that for gbg to call you a wummer is ridiculous.
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Old 11th May 2016, 19:11   #2468
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When KP was at his best I applauded his performances. When he was made England captain I was initially very impressed by his enthusiastic approach, and you can find my posts on the subject back in the archives. Although I always thought he was a bit odd as a person (perhaps due to that spectrum that some commentators have more recently suggested he might be on) I didn't dislike him BUT his betrayal of Strauss in texting SA players was inexcusable and unforgivable. He was dropped and it would have been better for all concerned if he'd never been recalled. It's hard not to take issue with people who sweep his treachery under the carpet just because he's a very good batsman and, for them, the best batsman they've ever seen and the best player in the world ever.

There are a few players I didn't or don't like. It's surely the case that not everyone can like all the decent players in your team. But some of you on this forum find it amazing that such a thing is possible. I don't believe you. I admit to disliking Eoin Morgan, much more than Pietersen, and I can't help this. But he's really not a great, nor even that good most of the time so I don't know why my attitude is upsetting. For Morgan, btw, there is no off-field stuff to talk about.

I think what CDogg is referring to is the wumming of posters on here by targeting their favourites, posting detrimental comments and constantly looking for evidence of underperformance. When you can hardly criticise current performance, why not look for something else to find fault with, however irrelevant. I don't do this, so please don't include me as a wummer.
Don't think I accused you of a wumming, did I? I know that all your posts are honest opinions, even if I don't agree with all you say. Neither do I think that we should like all England players. In fact I can't think of one I'd like to share a beer with. Where we differ is that you take issue with stuff not related to playing, like texts and anthems, whereas I dislike those who aren't up to it, eg Compton, Woakes.

Even if not intentionally wumming, I do feel you descend into hyperbole (or should that be ascend?). You started doing this again in the post above, casting untrue and exaggerated accusations against those who disagree with you over KP, but I'm not going over that all again. I don't find anything you write upsetting, it would appear to be you who is getting upset.

Anyway, rain saves Bell from a probable loss and gbg from having to be update his record.
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Old 4th July 2016, 18:42   #2469
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Update (not including further 2 matches where opposition dispensed with need for a toss):

His first class record as captain:

Lost toss
Lost toss
Lost toss
Lost toss
Won toss and batted. Team out for 382
Lost toss
Won toss and batted. Team made out for 453 (opposition then made 421/7 in a rain shortened match)
Won toss and batted. Team out for 87
Lost toss
Lost toss
Lost toss
Lost toss
Won toss and elected to field. Opposition made 444.
No toss
No toss and elected to field. Opposition 405/6.
Lost toss
Lost toss
Lost toss
Lost toss
Lost toss

He's literally a useless tosser.
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Old 5th July 2016, 10:09   #2470
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Given that Scott Borthwick's form has deserted him at the worst possible time I thought Bell had a chance to state his case for a recall against Surrey. Alas, he was out for a pretty little 50. Trott on the other hand played a substantial innings.
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Old 5th July 2016, 13:01   #2471
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casting untrue and exaggerated accusations against those who disagree with you over KP
I think a lot of people indulge in that kind of thing, one person had such a go at me with false interpretations of my motive, the old "reductio ad absurdum" as Sheldon Cooper brings up in BBT at least once, and frankly when you're being pushed towards arguing something you're not even saying and having to unravel the allegations of things you haven't said, it's time to move on - which I did.

I said of one player, and I've said it of Roy, Ali, Hales and plenty of others, that they need to produce consistency and not just have everyone looking at one score and going on about how they're good enough (or even extends to hyperbole)

Not exactly what SVAG was doing, but when talking of why people might exclude Ali he brought up his hundred recently as if that is a measure of his normal performance/series, and I got a ridiculous comment from someone (possibly SVAG) when I pointed out his average was skewed by said score and so I lined up the POSSIBILITY of Ali not scoring many 2nd innings of that match - looking at a worst case scenario. But apparently if he scored a hundred and averaged 80+ then the runs should have been inked into the scorecard there and then (reversing the person's reductio ad absurdum nicely!)

gbg - those won and lost tosses, are they all tosses including those he didn't call on, or just those he called on? I mean the worst/most useless tosser I can recall is whoever called the same way FIVE times in a five Test series and lost all five (Stewie in the Ashes?)

Tried to look it up, was Stewie and an Ashes (98/99), what Tuffers (?) has referred to as a "coinwash"
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Old 5th July 2016, 14:26   #2472
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Given that Scott Borthwick's form has deserted him at the worst possible time I thought Bell had a chance to state his case for a recall against Surrey. Alas, he was out for a pretty little 50. Trott on the other hand played a substantial innings.
Time is obviously running out for him. There has clearly been an opportunity for him to get back in the team with the obvious flaws of others, but he's flattered to deceive when I thought at the very least he would score heavily enough in the county championship.
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Old 5th July 2016, 14:49   #2473
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Time is obviously running out for him. There has clearly been an opportunity for him to get back in the team with the obvious flaws of others, but he's flattered to deceive when I thought at the very least he would score heavily enough in the county championship.
I agree with all this. I thought he would score a mountain of FC runs; get recalled against SL; fill his boots; and then get found out (again) by the likes of Amir and Yasir. He could still, in theory at least, have a good end to the season and earn selection for the India tour but I wouldn't back him to make tough runs out there.
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Old 6th July 2016, 04:07   #2474
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I am getting the feeling that Bell is resigned to his England career being over, although he might protest that is not the case. He's putting all his energy into the captaincy and having some success, whether he's won the toss or not, in the CC and t20. Also, Warwickshire has the highest number of batting points in the championship, which rather makes a nonsense of attempts to connect useless tossing with useless decision making.
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Old 6th July 2016, 06:42   #2475
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I agree with all this. I thought he would score a mountain of FC runs; get recalled against SL; fill his boots; and then get found out (again) by the likes of Amir and Yasir. He could still, in theory at least, have a good end to the season and earn selection for the India tour but I wouldn't back him to make tough runs out there.
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I am getting the feeling that Bell is resigned to his England career being over, although he might protest that is not the case. He's putting all his energy into the captaincy and having some success, whether he's won the toss or not, in the CC and t20. Also, Warwickshire has the highest number of batting points in the championship, which rather makes a nonsense of attempts to connect useless tossing with useless decision making.
I actually was at Guildford on Saturday and didn't watch him bat but actually watch him manage his bowlers pretty well. No captaincy by ensuring his bowlers bowl a set number of overs. No keeping the same field all the time to the same batsman. He mixed his bowlers up well and ensured that the opposition didn't get too comfortable, an Aaron Finch savage counter attack apart. He (Bell) actually strikes me as an intelligent enough bloke, but not enough of a real "in yer face" leader which has probably held him back a bit as a player. Theorising I know but that is that. I do think that a good number of runs between now and the end of the season may give him a chance of getting to the India tour, but failing that he will be finally done.
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Old 11th July 2016, 19:39   #2476
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I notice another toss lost.
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 11th July 2016, 21:06   #2477
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Bell would be a good choice as a stand in no.5 But I think his test career is over.
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Old 11th July 2016, 21:16   #2478
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Only averaging 42 in the CC doesn't suggest he's in form enough to demand a recall.
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Old 12th July 2016, 10:59   #2479
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Only averaging 42 in the CC doesn't suggest he's in form enough to demand a recall.
That's 10 more than Gary Ballance though right?
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Old 12th July 2016, 18:19   #2480
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That's 10 more than Gary Ballance though right?
I would not have called up Gary Ballance either, but then he did seduce my mother...
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