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Old 5th January 2018, 08:58   #141
Sir Coolerking
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Originally Posted by Summer of '77 View Post
If we'd written a script for this Test, based on the series to date, I reckon it would have played out very faithfully. I'm pleased I didn't waste my money buying coverage of what must rank as one of the least inspiring Ashes of my time (for which I hold England responsible). But, hey ho....less than 100 days til the new county season.
A quickfire start from Stoneman before getting out - Tick
A pretty 20 from Vince - Tick
3 wickets down for less than a hundred - Tick
Mid innings fightback - Tick
Root out (soft dismissal) for more than 50 but less than 100 - Tick
Minor tail wag from a novice fast bowler and a couple of Broad wafts - Tick
Bancroft out cheaply - Tick
Warner making runs - Tick
Smith heading to an untroubled ton - Tick
Khawaja making runs - WTF????

What is most frustrating is that in all the matches England have either put themselves in relatively strong positions or shown a high level of competitiveness only to blow it in the space of a small period of time (the 10 mins in this Test a new low). Smith, Starc and Lyon are the differences but there isn't really that much between these teams, certainly not like 4 years ago (or even 2010/11).
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Old 5th January 2018, 09:01   #142
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Ah yes, if all else fails draw conclusions from a study where N = 1. Or in this case, N = about 0.1.
An accurate observation of today's play. I make no further claims.
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Old 5th January 2018, 09:32   #143
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We won't be bowling last!

Bancroft is going to fit in brilliantly at Somerset. Has there ever been a more underwhelming ashes winning overseas player?
the thing is, he'll probably make piles of runs because county cricket is so poor. Didn't James Vince come out Division 1? And he has a test batting average lower than Mitchell Starc. Think about that.
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Old 5th January 2018, 09:37   #144
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I'm starting to hate Steve Smith now.
Well, you only have 7 more years to suffer.
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Old 5th January 2018, 09:39   #145
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the thing is, he'll probably make piles of runs because county cricket is so poor. Didn't James Vince come out Division 1? And he has a test batting average lower than Mitchell Starc. Think about that.
He sure did come out of div one. He averaged about 30 which is why we are all miffed about his selection. Mason crane who did well in oz last year averages about 45 in county championship.
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Old 5th January 2018, 09:44   #146
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the thing is, he'll probably make piles of runs because county cricket is so poor. Didn't James Vince come out Division 1? And he has a test batting average lower than Mitchell Starc. Think about that.
Vince has scored more and is averaging more than Bancroft in this series, and he has to bat against a far stronger bowling line up.

Vince clearly has a decent technique and a lot of talent - but something between the ears seems missing.
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Old 5th January 2018, 10:03   #147
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You just feel a Smith ton is inevitable here.
The way hes been going, feels like a 200 is on the way again.
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Old 5th January 2018, 10:05   #148
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Vince has scored more and is averaging more than Bancroft in this series, and he has to bat against a far stronger bowling line up.

Vince clearly has a decent technique and a lot of talent - but something between the ears seems missing.
I just get the impression that because he has such a nice cover drive, he looks better than he actually is. A decent seam bowler must fancy their chances of getting him to knick off eventually.
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Old 5th January 2018, 10:06   #149
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Vince has scored more and is averaging more than Bancroft in this series, and he has to bat against a far stronger bowling line up.

Vince clearly has a decent technique and a lot of talent - but something between the ears seems missing.
Well, no, it is a technical problem. He doesn't move his feet at all, and when he happens to waft at anything outside off-stump (ie his only scoring shot) and is beaten by pace or movement he nics off. His technical deficiency is glaring, hence why he keeps getting out to the same bowling plans.
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Old 5th January 2018, 10:29   #150
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I just get the impression that because he has such a nice cover drive, he looks better than he actually is. A decent seam bowler must fancy their chances of getting him to knick off eventually.
My impression is that he's almost always out to an aggressive shot on the front foot to a ball outside off stump. In the short term (if there is one) he needs to put away that shot and forget about the scoreboard.
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Old 5th January 2018, 10:34   #151
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I just get the impression that because he has such a nice cover drive, he looks better than he actually is. A decent seam bowler must fancy their chances of getting him to knick off eventually.
There a good article on Cricinfo by Jarrod Kimber on this very subject.
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Old 5th January 2018, 10:35   #152
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Originally Posted by Sir Coolerking View Post
A quickfire start from Stoneman before getting out - Tick
A pretty 20 from Vince - Tick
3 wickets down for less than a hundred - Tick
Mid innings fightback - Tick
Root out (soft dismissal) for more than 50 but less than 100 - Tick
Minor tail wag from a novice fast bowler and a couple of Broad wafts - Tick
Bancroft out cheaply - Tick
Warner making runs - Tick
Smith heading to an untroubled ton - Tick
Khawaja making runs - WTF????

What is most frustrating is that in all the matches England have either put themselves in relatively strong positions or shown a high level of competitiveness only to blow it in the space of a small period of time (the 10 mins in this Test a new low). Smith, Starc and Lyon are the differences but there isn't really that much between these teams, certainly not like 4 years ago (or even 2010/11).

You should take up script-writing.

Guess this series though has settled once and for all who is clearly the world's best batsman. Smith is definitely well ahead of Root and Kohli. Then there would be daylight.
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Old 5th January 2018, 11:03   #153
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How did Crane get on?
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Old 5th January 2018, 11:10   #154
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You should take up script-writing.

Guess this series though has settled once and for all who is clearly the world's best batsman. Smith is definitely well ahead of Root and Kohli. Then there would be daylight.
I think the series in India solidified Smith as the best test batsman, but overall, he lags behind his 3 top contemporaries.
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Old 5th January 2018, 11:13   #155
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Oh and onto this test match, it's been more of England doing well and Australia doing better. The problem is, England's batting has really let them down, time and time again. Good starts squandered, possible 400+ scores reduced to 300 or at times, less. The fact that it has happened at such an alarmingly consistent rate, should raise serious questions about who will play in coming series.
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Old 5th January 2018, 11:30   #156
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Oh and onto this test match, it's been more of England doing well and Australia doing better. The problem is, England's batting has really let them down, time and time again. Good starts squandered, possible 400+ scores reduced to 300 or at times, less. The fact that it has happened at such an alarmingly consistent rate, should raise serious questions about who will play in coming series.
England's batsmen are not technically good enough to score big runs, except Root where it seems to be a mental deficiency. Random chance will mean that they will get starts, even the occasional big score, but that mostly sooner rather than later they will come up against a delivery or bowling plan that will expose the technical flaws and lead to their dismissal.
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Old 5th January 2018, 12:49   #157
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How did Crane get on?
From what I saw he was ok, he puts a lot of side spin on so in a fourth innings I think he'd be a handful. More MacGill than Warne in style. Still think it is way too early for him to be playing Tests though.
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Old 5th January 2018, 13:00   #158
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Guess this series though has settled once and for all who is clearly the world's best batsman. Smith is definitely well ahead of Root and Kohli. Then there would be daylight.
You forgot Williamson.

I'd like to see what happens to Smith if we prepare 5 green seamers in 2019. And before that, Steyn/Rabada/Morkel may be able to expose his technique on pitches with a bit of life in.
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Old 5th January 2018, 13:00   #159
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Smith has been the difference between the two sides - I genuinely believe if he had played for us we would have won the series.
IMO they are two teams with distinctly poor batting line ups. A composite top 8 from the series could look like;

Warner
Cook
Vince or Khawaja - as poor as each other
Smith
Root
Malan/Marsh - both had goor series
Bairstow
Ali/Cummins - Ali is the better bat, but Pat has scored more

So it could be argued that 6 of a top 8 would be English.....
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Old 5th January 2018, 13:16   #160
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Smith has been the difference between the two sides - I genuinely believe if he had played for us we would have won the series.
IMO they are two teams with distinctly poor batting line ups. A composite top 8 from the series could look like;

Warner
Cook
Vince or Khawaja - as poor as each other
Smith
Root
Malan/Marsh - both had goor series
Bairstow
Ali/Cummins - Ali is the better bat, but Pat has scored more

So it could be argued that 6 of a top 8 would be English.....
I'd been pondering that as well. I'd get rid of both Vince and Khawaja and move either Malan or Marsh up. I end up with....

Warner
Cook
Malan
Smith
Root
Marsh
Bairstow
Starc
Hazlewood
Anderson
Lyon

Along with Smith, Starc is the other big difference. The ability to take wickets when the pitch is flat is something no one else does as well in this series.
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