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Old 6th January 2018, 09:15   #201
Rebelstar
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Originally Posted by MRNC4.0 View Post
Well that was optimistic.
Said yesterday (elsewhere) that they needed 3-4 wickets first session or face 100+ deficit on 1st innings. England have gone in thinking they need to play two spinners and the rest no doubt in their minds would be luck.

Personally I'd suggest the seamers could have done more, to put so much weight of responsibility on a batsman spinner who averages (currently) 40 with the ball, and a 20 year old making his debut is mental.

The England batting throws away 50-150 runs on these aussie pitches all too often, and as many runs bowling because they don't have a bowling attack suits or can adapt to conditions and when you're ceding 100-300 runs a Test in a lot of them you're not going to draw many let alone win.
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Old 6th January 2018, 09:31   #202
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Looks grim for England. Agree they left runs out on the park with some indiscreet shots and decision-making, but it's their insipid attack which ensures they have zero chance of winning. The only time they have had any decent penetration is in Adelaide under lights.
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Old 6th January 2018, 09:36   #203
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The Test, like the series, is gone. England went into the series with one of the worst Ashes squads in a long time, maybe even the worst, and senior members of the team have underperformed

Cook : 366 runs @ 52.29
2/3 of the runs in one big innings, the other 122 runs @ 17.43. A SERIES is about five Tests not one innings, and even that innings didn't win England the Test....

Stoneman : 232 runs @ 29.00
The long quest for a solid opener to partner Cook continues, not as if he has age on his side being older than Malan and both 30.

Vince : 224 runs @ 28.00
a curious pick for Test cricket, not terrible but short of the mid 30s average you might be hoping for

Root : 320 runs @ 40.00
no hundred despite four fifties so like Cook returns a decent average, and papers over the cracks well

Ali : 166 runs @ 20.75 & 4 wkts @ 132.50
not measured up in either discipline, just as well no batsman or bowler who might have replaced him would likely have done much better

Woakes : 114 runs @ 16.29 & 10 wkts @ 49.50
can score a few handy runs, but in the side for his bowling n'est pas?

Broad : 132 runs @ 16.50 & 11 wkts @ 43.09
Some decent efforts with the bat, 3 wkts a couple of times, but should have been leading this attack not going through the motions.


Bit harsh to suggest Stoneman and Vince are "underperforming", that might be as good as it gets, but FIVE of the side have been underperforming in most innings, be it with bat, with ball, or both. But cracks will be papered over, Root still averaging 40 in spite of his relative anonymity, and as we've seen with Cook and Broad, enough stand out single efforts that 'all is forgiven' and it's somewhat laughable Cook is 4th top runscorer in the series.

His comments about saving his own neck speak volumes and were perhaps best kept to himself, put in the kind of effort ONCE in the whole series that really should he not have been putting in EVERY innings....?

No doubt a home series win will convince the selectors this was just a(nother) blip
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Old 6th January 2018, 09:42   #204
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As suspected, the last two overs of day one buggered us for the rest of the game.
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Old 6th January 2018, 09:46   #205
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I must have missed the qualification "during today's play" or similar...



Nope, I didn't miss it - it wasn't there.

Perhaps a more accurate reflection would have been "in the early part of his first Test outing, the specialist spinner has produced comparable figures with the veteran part timer with nearly fifty tests under his belt." with maybe the rider "although it is of negligible statistical significance".
My observation extends to two days of test cricket.

(But don't take me too seriously )
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Old 6th January 2018, 10:12   #206
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Lots of references in the media to warne's debut and how it compares to crane's. Maybe unfair of me but wasn't warne playing sachin an co whereas most of crane's bowling was at khwaja and the marsh brothers.

Curran might be useful in England but the only way someone can succeed bowling high 70s overseas is if they do something different such as excessive bounce. I like his spirit but he doesn't look up to it.

We are not going to be bowling last are we
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Old 6th January 2018, 10:29   #207
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Lots of references in the media to warne's debut and how it compares to crane's. Maybe unfair of me but wasn't warne playing sachin an co whereas most of crane's bowling was at khwaja and the marsh brothers.
You make a good point. Allowing Khawaja to make 170 on the only pitch in Australia that turns might be the most damning evidence of the lack of quality spin bowling in England.
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Old 6th January 2018, 10:50   #208
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Lots of references in the media to warne's debut and how it compares to crane's. Maybe unfair of me but wasn't warne playing sachin an co whereas most of crane's bowling was at khwaja and the marsh brothers.

Curran might be useful in England but the only way someone can succeed bowling high 70s overseas is if they do something different such as excessive bounce. I like his spirit but he doesn't look up to it.

We are not going to be bowling last are we
Well he's better than Rashid at least.
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Old 6th January 2018, 10:52   #209
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It was strange of Bairstow post match to so aggressively dismiss any criticism of English players position in the team as being 'laughable.' So England players are beyond criticism, immune from consequence and fans aren't allowed to question their poor performances because we're just dumb plebs? How elitist.

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Old 6th January 2018, 11:17   #210
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Originally Posted by Sir Virgs and Zamora View Post
Lots of references in the media to warne's debut and how it compares to crane's. Maybe unfair of me but wasn't warne playing sachin an co whereas most of crane's bowling was at khwaja and the marsh brothers.

Curran might be useful in England but the only way someone can succeed bowling high 70s overseas is if they do something different such as excessive bounce. I like his spirit but he doesn't look up to it.

We are not going to be bowling last are we
Bit late for quickest knee jerk Sir V - Ali TT had written him off after one session.

Your mole suggesting he was bowling too many long hops turned out to be a load of guff too.
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Old 6th January 2018, 11:18   #211
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It was strange of Bairstow post match to so aggressively dismiss any criticism of English players position in the team as being 'laughable.' So England players are beyond criticism, immune from consequence and fans aren't allowed to question their poor performances because we're just dumb plebs? How elitist.
A pretty unlikeable bunch this England team to be honest.
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Old 6th January 2018, 12:03   #212
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It was strange of Bairstow post match to so aggressively dismiss any criticism of English players position in the team as being 'laughable.' So England players are beyond criticism, immune from consequence and fans aren't allowed to question their poor performances because we're just dumb plebs? How elitist.
Well many England fans (not saying all of us) have allowed English players to get away with any and everything. There were excuses made about the team's drinking culture on this very forum, there were excuses made for Cook time and time again, there are still excuses being made for some players not being picked that should have been picked, and so on and so forth.

Extrapolate what's happening on those small forum to much bigger ones across the internet and on news message boards, and there is no reason why the England players shouldn't feel invincible, they get away with everything. I'm not surprised at all by Bairstows laugh and shrug.
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Old 6th January 2018, 12:07   #213
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That’s pretty much the England humiliation complete - outbatted, outbowled, outfielded, outthought, outplayed.

Andrew Strauss really knows how to run a tight ship.
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Old 6th January 2018, 13:03   #214
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It was strange of Bairstow post match to so aggressively dismiss any criticism of English players position in the team as being 'laughable.' So England players are beyond criticism, immune from consequence and fans aren't allowed to question their poor performances because we're just dumb plebs? How elitist.
I haven't seen the interview but realistically you're not going to get anything different from a player about his teammates, especially after a tough, hot day like that.

Mind you, truth is there aren't many better players kicking around so even some of the worse performing players aren't under that much threat. I see Stoneman has averaged 29 is this series, that is in the top tier for recent English openers.
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Old 6th January 2018, 13:25   #215
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Thatís pretty much the England humiliation complete - outbatted, outbowled, outfielded, outthought, outplayed.

Andrew Strauss really knows how to run a tight ship.
Youíre right about outbatted, outbowled etc. But the humiliation is not complete as the result will be no worse than 4-0. Compare 2013/14.....
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Old 6th January 2018, 13:48   #216
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Youíre right about outbatted, outbowled etc. But the humiliation is not complete as the result will be no worse than 4-0. Compare 2013/14.....
Semantics to be honest. It has been predictably woeful with the MCG groundsman to thank for producing the freeway that allowed Cook and co to avoid more humiliation against the weakened Australia attack.
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Old 6th January 2018, 13:51   #217
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Youíre right about outbatted, outbowled etc. But the humiliation is not complete as the result will be no worse than 4-0. Compare 2013/14.....
But that team had Johnson, Harris, Clarke, Rogers, Haddin etc. This time Khawaja is making 170 against spinners on a turning wicket and the Marsh bros are averaging 77 and 140 respectively. If that's not demoralising, then what is?
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Old 6th January 2018, 13:52   #218
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Semantics to be honest. It has been predictably woeful with the MCG groundsman to thank for producing the freeway that allowed Cook and co to avoid more humiliation against the weakened Australia attack.
Although the English batsmen only scored the one century last time, compared to three this series.
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Old 6th January 2018, 13:52   #219
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Youíre right about outbatted, outbowled etc. But the humiliation is not complete as the result will be no worse than 4-0. Compare 2013/14.....
Also, according to Bairstow theres nothing between the teams and Englands 'lack of concentration at important moments' are the only reason they're 0-3 down. So things should be fine and dandy once they start concentrating a bit more.
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Old 6th January 2018, 14:03   #220
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Also, according to Bairstow theres nothing between the teams and Englands 'lack of concentration at important moments' are the only reason they're 0-3 down. So things should be fine and dandy once they start concentrating a bit more.
Hardly surprising after Tom Harrison claimed English cricket is in rude health the other day. The players likely have to toe the party line, especially after all the off field shenanigans (involving Bairstow) in recent months.

But its alright, the new T20 comp is the panacea for all ills.
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