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Old 2nd September 2018, 10:45   #481
Chin Music
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he scored a hundred in the previous Test, also batting #6, so it really isn't
harsh.
I was talking about the vast majority of his innings having been at #7. Bairstow is having a go batting at elevated positions with and without the gloves but it doesnít appear to be working. For me, at least one of them needs to be making a success of a top 5 position and not have the fudge of Buttler as a non keeper, batting at #7.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 11:35   #482
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Agreed. One of England’s problems is that we’ve got B & B plus Stokes, Moeen, and now Curran who are probably best suited to playing at number 7. Oh and Woakes. Who are apparently all now undroppable
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Old 2nd September 2018, 17:23   #483
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While not really pretty, Kohli manages to put yet another appearance in this thread with his 58.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 18:04   #484
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While not really pretty, Kohli manages to put yet another appearance in this thread with his 58.
Rahane joins him with his 51. Probably batted the better of the two, certainly against Moeen, who gave Kohli more to think about.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 19:37   #485
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Agreed. One of Englandís problems is that weíve got B & B plus Stokes, Moeen, and now Curran who are probably best suited to playing at number 7. Oh and Woakes. Who are apparently all now undroppable
That's far down on our list of problems, finding 3 of the four players to play in the top 4 is a far bigger issue.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 19:49   #486
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That's far down on our list of problems, finding 3 of the four players to play in the top 4 is a far bigger issue.
Well thatís it isnít it. But if you play 5 no 7/8s plus Anderson and Briad then at least one or two of them will have to bat in the top four, Bairstow and Moeen in this match for example.

I also think people assume that someone in the lower order will pick up the slack from the top - Curran here, Woakes at Lords- which may have contributed to the neglect of the top 4.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 20:15   #487
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Well thatís it isnít it. But if you play 5 no 7/8s plus Anderson and Briad then at least one or two of them will have to bat in the top four, Bairstow and Moeen in this match for example.

I also think people assume that someone in the lower order will pick up the slack from the top - Curran here, Woakes at Lords- which may have contributed to the neglect of the top 4.
5, 6, 7, 8, 9 makes the most sense with one not playing, of course that's if we actually had a top 4 who actually remembered how to bat!

One of YJB, BS, JB, SC, CW or MA would miss out but considering the injury proneness of BS and CW and the potential desire to rest quicks for a game I don't see it as an issue.

The real problem comes when you go away to the sub-continent and want to pick two spinners.
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Old 2nd September 2018, 21:58   #488
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5 or 6 is potentially too high for some of them too though. Which would be less of an issue if we had a good top 4!

I agree itís not Englandís biggest problem
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Old 7th September 2018, 20:38   #489
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Nope neither of todayís knocks qualify due to them being somewhat tortured.
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Old 7th September 2018, 22:59   #490
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I was talking about the vast majority of his innings having been at #7. Bairstow is having a go batting at elevated positions with and without the gloves but it doesnít appear to be working. For me, at least one of them needs to be making a success of a top 5 position and not have the fudge of Buttler as a non keeper, batting at #7.
They want to include Woakes, Stokes, Curran, Bairstow, Ali and Root, most of whom would be a bit high if not getting vertigo at #5

I think Bairstow is better than #7, possibly a #6. Comments I read on BBC were harsh suggesting he's not a batsman, he's done tremendously in ODIs and not been terrible as keeper for England. Nitpicking over his performances post injury and by position seem somewhat churlish given England have been a walking collapse.

And as I pointed out on another forum he's scored more runs than Root who isn't getting the same stick, despite Bairstow's 93 and 70 besting Root's 80 and 48 as their respective two top scores of the series.

And it's also laughable given:

2018

Buttler : 432 runs @ 48.00
Root : 594 runs @ 37.13
Bairstow : 466 runs @ 27.41
Stoneman : 198 runs @ 24.75
Ali : 170 runs @ 24.29
Stokes : 313 runs @ 24.08
Cook : 369 runs @ 21.71
Jennings : 182 runs @ 20.22
Malan : 219 runs @ 19.91

Root is surviving on EIGHT scores between 48 and 83, he's failed to reach 20 in just as many innings. It's a fairly pathetic looking set of performances, to have SIX top order batsmen averaging under 25, another under 30 and only two where they should be, or better.

Argument has been made to persist with eg Jennings because who is better? Frankly I'd be gobsmacked if any opener coming in could be much worse, certainly the loss of what would only be a few runs has to be worth the chance of someone who can bat to a decent level.

It's pretty obvious why Stoneman, Malan and Ali were dropped, it's puzzling as to why Jennings and Cook hadn't been - well maybe not in the case of Cook, "can't" drop players with that kind of reputation and history.

Easy to forget Bairstow played a key part in winning the 1st Test, his partnership with Root adding 104 runs in the 1st innings, and even 2nd innings his 28 might not seem a lot but England only posted 180. Then in the 2nd Test his partnership with Woakes of 189 more than doubled the total and set up the win.
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Old 8th September 2018, 16:37   #491
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URBOF

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Nope neither of today’s knocks qualify due to them being somewhat tortured.
Funny you should mention that; as I was mowing my lawn just now, I was pondering the half centuries posted by Cook and Moeen and came up with ...
Ugly, Rat-Bag of an Old Fifty (URBOF).

Edit: I should point out that, based on the recent shambles of England’s batting displays, the URBOF award should be proudly worn as a badge of honour.
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Old 8th September 2018, 16:40   #492
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Does Buttler's count?
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Old 8th September 2018, 17:28   #493
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Does Buttler's count?
I wouldnít have thought so, given that he almost certainly couldíve played it safe for a red-inker, or even have played for a ton had he not run out of batting partners.
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Old 8th September 2018, 20:05   #494
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I wouldnít have thought so, given that he almost certainly couldíve played it safe for a red-inker, or even have played for a ton had he not run out of batting partners.
Another 3 unconverted 50s for England though. 3 centuries and 27 50s in tests in 2018 to date. Only Pakistan has a worse conversion, being as their batsmen have failed to convert ten 50s into centuries so far.
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Old 9th September 2018, 11:38   #495
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Funny you should mention that; as I was mowing my lawn just now, I was pondering the half centuries posted by Cook and Moeen and came up with ...
Ugly, Rat-Bag of an Old Fifty (URBOF).

Edit: I should point out that, based on the recent shambles of Englandís batting displays, the URBOF award should be proudly worn as a badge of honour.
Those innings on Friday were definitely that. Aliís innings with all those plays and misses was putrid. At least he stuck it out. Cookís was markedly better without being that close to those played in his prime. I really thought that the afternoon session was fantastic with a wonderful spell of bowling from the Indian quicks and the dogged determination of the batsmen to stick it out.

Aliís innings should for me be exhibit ĎAí as to why he shouldnít bat at 3. A respectable contribution in the circumstances of course, but the technical proficiency of a club hack v the moving ball. I am not trying to knock him, merely pointing out that him playing there is a stopgap and nothing more.
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Old 9th September 2018, 13:56   #496
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Completely agree with you Chin. I think Moeen is a plausible enough batsman and better than almost all of the specialists we’ve picked in years but he’s not a number 3.
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Old 9th September 2018, 15:08   #497
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Interesting to hear our chief selecta taking to Aggers at lunchtime on TMS. Basically he wants to get the best team on the park, rather than the best openers plus the best no. 3 plus the best no. 4 and so on. Given this approach I think they'll probably have Moeen at no. 3 for the foreseeable. He did well in the first innings. It should be recalled that what we've seen from him down the order in recent years isn't his natural game but is an adaptation to the circumstance of batting among the bowlers. Looking foward to next summer, the only way they'll be able to drop Mo back down the order and bring in a hypothetical new no. 3 is by dropping someone who's batting at 4 or below. Maybe Rashid, but then we can only have our preferred 4 seamers if Rashid is dropped for a seamer or if we are sure (which I don't think we consistently will be) that Stokes is fit to play a full bowling role. So ultimately I think that if Mo doesn't pass muster at no. 3 the only alternative is Stokes at no. 3, or Moeen developing his bowling enough to play as one of just four bowlers.
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Old 9th September 2018, 17:09   #498
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Interesting to hear our chief selecta taking to Aggers at lunchtime on TMS. Basically he wants to get the best team on the park, rather than the best openers plus the best no. 3 plus the best no. 4 and so on.
Is Woakes still injured, I presume not as he's been released to play in the CC. If not then how is he not in the best XI, does our chief think Jennings and Rashid gave us a better chance of winning this match than picking Woakes?

I've just seen this is on the PLF thread, probably the wrong place!
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Old 9th September 2018, 17:45   #499
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Is Woakes still injured, I presume not as he's been released to play in the CC. If not then how is he not in the best XI, does our chief think Jennings and Rashid gave us a better chance of winning this match than picking Woakes?

I've just seen this is on the PLF thread, probably the wrong place!
Yes it is ... Sorry mods. I don't think Smith commented on that precise question, but he did say that earlier in the season Woakes was fit enough to play CC but not -- in Ed's view -- fit enough to be picked for the test. So maybe that's the case now too.
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Old 9th October 2018, 11:21   #500
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An Aaron Finch entry after a promising innings in the UAE comes to an end with him scoring 62.

*edit* Usman Khawaja joins after scoring 85.
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