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Old 20th August 2018, 14:15   #101
D/L
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There’s really no need to trouble anyone with the facts when we can instead just rely on DL’s infallible prejudices ...
See above. Any road up, I think your comment only serves to reveal a prejudice of your own.
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Old 20th August 2018, 15:26   #102
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Kallis would, and did, get into the side on his bowling very early in his career but that wouldn't have been the case from the turn of the millennium onwards.
The problem was that by then he was clearly their best batsman so they had to protect him. In the 1999 World Cup he opened the bowling and was around 90 mph. He lumbered in a bit too. I refuse to agree that any seam bowler could open the bowling and be comfortably the best batsman in the side. It is too much for a body to take.
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Old 20th August 2018, 22:34   #103
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The problem was that by then he was clearly their best batsman so they had to protect him. In the 1999 World Cup he opened the bowling and was around 90 mph. He lumbered in a bit too. I refuse to agree that any seam bowler could open the bowling and be comfortably the best batsman in the side. It is too much for a body to take.
The batting isn't going to have anywhere near the same effect on the body as the bowling. The issue is the risk of injury if you overbowl the player will inevitably get injuries like any quicker bowler, which means the side misses it's best batsman.
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Old 21st August 2018, 00:03   #104
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The batting isn't going to have anywhere near the same effect on the body as the bowling. The issue is the risk of injury if you overbowl the player will inevitably get injuries like any quicker bowler, which means the side misses it's best batsman.
Exactly. He could not possibly be expected to average 55 with bat and 25 with ball. So he bowled less and only got about 290 test wickets at about 32. Still reasonable.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 00:05   #105
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See above. Any road up, I think your comment only serves to reveal a prejudice of your own.
Yes, I spotted the pettifogging wriggling after you’d been exposed as largely ignoring the facts.
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Old 30th August 2018, 12:05   #106
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I seem to remember your being quite spectacularly exposed as largely unable to understand statistics - by a contributor much respected on this site as being a bait of a stats "guru" no less.
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Old 30th August 2018, 18:10   #107
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I seem to remember your being quite spectacularly exposed as largely unable to understand statistics - by a contributor much respected on this site as being a bait of a stats "guru" no less.
As usual, your recollections are extremely heavily coloured by your own prejudices; argumentativeness and lack of understanding. I should stop taking the bait, shouldn’t I?
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Old 31st August 2018, 11:04   #108
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That comment should carry a large caveat as objective assessments of such traits in those with whom we verbally fence, and whom we don't really know, are always very elusive.
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Old 31st August 2018, 18:26   #109
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That comment should carry a large caveat as objective assessments of such traits in those with whom we verbally fence, and whom we don't really know, are always very elusive.
What an astonishing burst of insight into yourself. Oh, hold on, it wasn’t.
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Old 1st September 2018, 11:20   #110
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I don't think any team has so many 'nearly' all rounders as England. If Woakes, Rashid or Curran batted at 6.....

f/c
Stokes - 14 100s / 7 5fers 1 10fer
Woakes - 10 100s / 19 5fers 4 10fers
Ali - 20 100s / 11 5fers 2 10fers
Rashid - 10 100s / 19 5fers 1 10fer

20/21 year olds that could be
Curran - HS 96 / 6 5fers 1 10fer
Bess - 1 100 / 7 5fers 1 10fer

Buttler
Bairstow
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Old 1st September 2018, 12:41   #111
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What an astonishing burst of insight into yourself. Oh, hold on, it wasn’t.
How could you ever have been in a position to know? Glad you seem to have eventually realised that.
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Old 1st September 2018, 13:30   #112
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I don't think any team has so many 'nearly' all rounders as England. If Woakes, Rashid or Curran batted at 6.....

f/c
Stokes - 14 100s / 7 5fers 1 10fer
Woakes - 10 100s / 19 5fers 4 10fers
Ali - 20 100s / 11 5fers 2 10fers
Rashid - 10 100s / 19 5fers 1 10fer

20/21 year olds that could be
Curran - HS 96 / 6 5fers 1 10fer
Bess - 1 100 / 7 5fers 1 10fer

Buttler
Bairstow
India come close if they play Jadeja and Bhuvi.

It does recall the NZ sides of the late 90s, early 00s with Cairns, McMillan, Astle, Vettori, Franklin etc
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Old 3rd September 2018, 19:02   #113
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India come close if they play Jadeja and Bhuvi.

It does recall the NZ sides of the late 90s, early 00s with Cairns, McMillan, Astle, Vettori, Franklin etc
New Zealand regularly have had a lot of all rounders as they've often lacked out and out test quality batsmen and bowlers. They've often been better than the sum of their parts.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 19:08   #114
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New Zealand regularly have had a lot of all rounders as they've often lacked out and out test quality batsmen and bowlers. They've often been better than the sum of their parts.
And I'd probably fancy that early 00s NZ side against this England one, certainly in NZ.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 19:16   #115
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New Zealand regularly have had a lot of all rounders as they've often lacked out and out test quality batsmen and bowlers. They've often been better than the sum of their parts.
South Africa as well.

When they returned after apartheid they had McMillan, Klusener, Boje, Pollock etc

Yet their only world class batsmen have probably been Barry Richards and AB de Villiers.
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 19:54   #116
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South Africa as well.

When they returned after apartheid they had McMillan, Klusener, Boje, Pollock etc

Yet their only world class batsmen have probably been Barry Richards and AB de Villiers.
I reckon I could name 8 who've averaged over 40 since they came back to test cricket. They also had a decent bowler who averaged 55 plus. They have had a lot of all rounders though.
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Old 3rd September 2018, 20:42   #117
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I reckon I could name 8 who've averaged over 40 since they came back to test cricket. They also had a decent bowler who averaged 55 plus. They have had a lot of all rounders though.
And I could probably name a dozen England players* who've averaged over 40 in that same time period but, until this generation, fewer English quality all-rounders than SA.



*I would only describe a few of them as world class. I should also have included Graeme Pollock in my list of SA world class batsmen - apologies for that oversight.
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It was a poor innings by Bell with the bat.
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Old 4th September 2018, 08:52   #118
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I see the (deliberate?) exclusion of Kallis from the list of SA all-rounders or batsmen.
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Old 4th September 2018, 20:32   #119
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I see the (deliberate?) exclusion of Kallis from the list of SA all-rounders or batsmen.
He’s trolling SVaZ, yes. Quite right too, in my view.
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Old 4th September 2018, 22:52   #120
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He’s trolling SVaZ, yes. Quite right too, in my view.
Disappointed you decided to come clean! The best thing is playing him at his own game when the guy had such stat flaws that you can mine.
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