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Old 6th February 2017, 22:43   #1001
geoff_boycotts_grandmother
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It depends what you mean by publicity. Presumably you mean the way it is advertised. So how would you go about advertising it?
I mean making sure people are aware it's on.

Few people knew C5 were showing it and fewer still knew what games they were showing - I certainly switched on expecting to see a game, only to find out they weren't showing that match.

Marketing it would presumably take place on several levels across all media. The side hosting the match would market it. The broadcaster would market it. The competition organiser would market it. I'd expect to engage schools, local cricket clubs; I'd expect to see trailers on TV, multiple interviews in newspaper and on the radio and a social media campaign pushing it.

None of these occured for the Big Bash in the UK.
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Old 7th February 2017, 10:16   #1002
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Marketing it would presumably take place on several levels across all media. The side hosting the match would market it. The broadcaster would market it. The competition organiser would market it. I'd expect to engage schools, local cricket clubs; I'd expect to see trailers on TV, multiple interviews in newspaper and on the radio and a social media campaign pushing it.

None of these occured for the Big Bash in the UK.
ITV seem to have quite a few talent shows and advertise these heavily. However, seeing as I have no interest in them I pay no attention. They can tell me there's more talent than ever before, they have a great new judging panel, or that there's a new big name presenter. I don't care, and the advert isn't aimed at me, but because it's a popular genre and already has a big fan base the approach is appropriate. The franchise competition can be advertised 50 times a day and it will have no appeal to anyone who doesn't have an interest in sport. This mass marketing isn't appropriate and won't have much affect. Out of interest, what would be your ideal host channel for this competition? Remember you have said you want every game televised for 'the narrative' and games to start in the evening so you can fill the stadiums.

Yes you you can engage local cricket clubs, but there's no reason you couldn't do that with the Blast, and their more likely to want to watch a team they have heard of. How do you suggest the franchises market it, seeing as they are starting from scratch with no fan base. Yorkshire could advertise a Roses match, but how does a new entity with no members or infrastructure appeal to people?

Doesn't Facebook use algorithms to show people what they are interested in, so how would this reach people who have no interest in cricket? This is just going to be preaching to the converted.
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Old 7th February 2017, 13:51   #1003
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ITV seem to have quite a few talent shows and advertise these heavily. However, seeing as I have no interest in them I pay no attention. They can tell me there's more talent than ever before, they have a great new judging panel, or that there's a new big name presenter. I don't care, and the advert isn't aimed at me, but because it's a popular genre and already has a big fan base the approach is appropriate. The franchise competition can be advertised 50 times a day and it will have no appeal to anyone who doesn't have an interest in sport. This mass marketing isn't appropriate and won't have much affect. Out of interest, what would be your ideal host channel for this competition? Remember you have said you want every game televised for 'the narrative' and games to start in the evening so you can fill the stadiums.

Yes you you can engage local cricket clubs, but there's no reason you couldn't do that with the Blast, and their more likely to want to watch a team they have heard of. How do you suggest the franchises market it, seeing as they are starting from scratch with no fan base. Yorkshire could advertise a Roses match, but how does a new entity with no members or infrastructure appeal to people?

Doesn't Facebook use algorithms to show people what they are interested in, so how would this reach people who have no interest in cricket? This is just going to be preaching to the converted.
A specious line of argument. No company would ever bring a new product to market if they followed your reasoning.

And might as well say that cricket should be happy with the declining fanbase it has and only seek to cater for them, even if that means the long term destruction of the game in England.
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Old 7th February 2017, 16:59   #1004
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I got into cricket because of festival cricket and watching test matches on terrestrial TV, both things taken away from youngsters today.
TV Tests were my access route too. We had cricket at my junior school but it failed to grab me because....well, standing around in a field doing very little isn't especially enthralling to a little kid. But, when I happened upon cricket on TV, that all changed. The coverage fast-tracked my understanding of how the game worked, its laws and nuances. Crucially, it showed me that here was a game in which athleticism, or belonging to the sporty gangs, wasn't necessary. I went from being one of several disinterested unconfident kids in games lessons to skippering my house team. My games teacher didn't do that - Knotty, Deadly, Richie and Jim Laker did.
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Old 7th February 2017, 17:25   #1005
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ITV seem to have quite a few talent shows and advertise these heavily. However, seeing as I have no interest in them I pay no attention. They can tell me there's more talent than ever before, they have a great new judging panel, or that there's a new big name presenter. I don't care, and the advert isn't aimed at me, but because it's a popular genre and already has a big fan base the approach is appropriate. The franchise competition can be advertised 50 times a day and it will have no appeal to anyone who doesn't have an interest in sport. This mass marketing isn't appropriate and won't have much affect. Out of interest, what would be your ideal host channel for this competition? Remember you have said you want every game televised for 'the narrative' and games to start in the evening so you can fill the stadiums.

Yes you you can engage local cricket clubs, but there's no reason you couldn't do that with the Blast, and their more likely to want to watch a team they have heard of. How do you suggest the franchises market it, seeing as they are starting from scratch with no fan base. Yorkshire could advertise a Roses match, but how does a new entity with no members or infrastructure appeal to people?

Doesn't Facebook use algorithms to show people what they are interested in, so how would this reach people who have no interest in cricket? This is just going to be preaching to the converted.
So what?

The amount of people interested in sport in this country is huge.

County cricket attendances aren't.

Both facts are well documented. There is therefore a huge market (sports fans) to aim at.

ps Genuine LOL at your Facebook comment

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TV Tests were my access route too. We had cricket at my junior school but it failed to grab me because....well, standing around in a field doing very little isn't especially enthralling to a little kid. But, when I happened upon cricket on TV, that all changed. The coverage fast-tracked my understanding of how the game worked, its laws and nuances. Crucially, it showed me that here was a game in which athleticism, or belonging to the sporty gangs, wasn't necessary. I went from being one of several disinterested unconfident kids in games lessons to skippering my house team. My games teacher didn't do that - Knotty, Deadly, Richie and Jim Laker did.
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Old 7th February 2017, 18:00   #1006
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So what?

The amount of people interested in sport in this country is huge.

County cricket attendances aren't.

Both facts are well documented. There is therefore a huge market (sports fans) to aim at.

ps Genuine LOL at your Facebook comment
Yes there are a lot of people interested in sport, and you would think these people are aware of cricket. A lot of people are interested in music in this county, but the J-Pop market is much smaller. Likewise lots of people are interested in sports but it's unlikely a national tiddlywinks championship would garner a great deal of attention.

Doesn't seem that you have an anwser to any other the points, or the fact that a franchise competition will not do anything that the Blast can't do.
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Old 7th February 2017, 18:07   #1007
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A specious line of argument. No company would ever bring a new product to market if they followed your reasoning.
When you bring out a new project or want to expand, you really do want to carry out some form of market research first. Saying 'It works in Australia' isn't good enough evidence to say a new initiative will be a success. A lot of companies that have tried to expand or change based on the demographics or happenings of other countries usually end up in a mess. It might be worth looking up Tesco's move into the American market to see just how different seemingly similar cultures are.

To be fair the ECB have carried out some research in talking to County members about a franchise system. However, they have been given feedback they don't like and seem intent on pressing ahead regardless, which is a recipe for disaster.

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And might as well say that cricket should be happy with the declining fanbase it has and only seek to cater for them, even if that means the long term destruction of the game in England.
People have been saying such things for decades.
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Old 7th February 2017, 19:34   #1008
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To be fair the ECB have carried out some research in talking to County members about a franchise system. However, they have been given feedback they don't like and seem intent on pressing ahead regardless, which is a recipe for disaster.
To be honest, mate, you have missed the point by further than a Steve Harmison wide.

The ECB doesn't care if every single county member refuses to attend the matches.

This is so not for them that if the 'research' says that trad county types in blazers and stripey ties don't like it, that goes down as a plus point in the tick box.

There are fewer than 50,000 county members in the whole country. That's less than the number who attended a single match in some of the BBL fixtures.

If it is marketed smartly, there is no reason why they can't get 50,000 to turn up to CBT games at the Olympic Stadium to see the world's best.

Then there are the TV rights , the on-the-go rights (which by 2020 may be even more valuable than old-fashioned box-in-the-living-room rights) and the small matter of a guaranteed divided of 1.3 million p.a. for each of the 18 counties.

That's the money that is going to save the four day game which you and me love so dearly - so if you are serious about your desire to preserve red ball cricket for our grandchildren, you need to get with the programme...

Even if it is only half as successful as the BBL, it will be enough to save English cricket.
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Old 7th February 2017, 19:58   #1009
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To be honest, mate, you have missed the point by further than a Steve Harmison wide.

The ECB doesn't care if every single county member refuses to attend the matches.

This is so not for them that if the 'research' says that trad county types in blazers and stripey ties don't like it, that goes down as a plus point in the tick box.
Then why are so they keen on getting feedback from members then? Are you seriously suggesting they want to find out what current fans don't want in order to attract new ones?

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There are fewer than 50,000 county members in the whole country. That's less than the number who attended a single match in some of the BBL fixtures.
Maybe, but there's a lot more than 50,000 fans who attend the Blast in its current incarnation.

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If it is marketed smartly, there is no reason why they can't get 50,000 to turn up to CBT games at the Olympic Stadium to see the world's best.

Then there are the TV rights , the on-the-go rights (which by 2020 may be even more valuable than old-fashioned box-in-the-living-room rights) and the small matter of a guaranteed divided of 1.3 million p.a. for each of the 18 counties.

That's the money that is going to save the four day game which you and me love so dearly - so if you are serious about your desire to preserve red ball cricket for our grandchildren, you need to get with the programme...

Even if it is only half as successful as the BBL, it will be enough to save English cricket.
Go on then, dazzle me with this marketing plan.

This highlight the different thinking those in favour of franchises have of the competition. You think your going to sell the TV rates for millions to the highest bidder, GBG wants it on terrestrial TV. What do you want, money or viewers?

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Old 7th February 2017, 20:05   #1010
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Yes there are a lot of people interested in sport, and you would think these people are aware of cricket. A lot of people are interested in music in this county, but the J-Pop market is much smaller. Likewise lots of people are interested in sports but it's unlikely a national tiddlywinks championship would garner a great deal of attention.

Doesn't seem that you have an anwser to any other the points, or the fact that a franchise competition will not do anything that the Blast can't do.
I was aware of cricket.

I wasn't aware when C5 were showing their Big Bash games.

Remember the C5 Big Bash viewing figures were your argument that there's no appetite for cricket in this country, whereas others pointed to the Ashes 2005 as the reach cricket can have in this country.

I'm happy to try and answer any substantive points you may make, but you'll need to make one first.
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Old 7th February 2017, 20:06   #1011
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The question that still hasnt been answered is if the Birmingham Bears (for all intents and purposes a city based team) cant sell out Edgbaston how is another Birmingham team going to sell 25,000 tickets on a regular basis on top of the Blast?

Having both comps in one summer is a crazy idea. One or the other, fine.

And if its a franchise based league then those ploughing in their pounds are gonna want a return. They arent going to do it as some sort of altruistic act.

Here's a stat to mull over: 62% of Australians live in the 5 largest cities. In England that drops to 33% and that is in urban areas rather than cities. Admittedly the totals are roughly the same but a large proportion of that 33% are in London and unless there are gonna be 4 teams based in the capital then there is not enough people elsewhere to make it all add up. People arent gonna travel great distances during rush hour traffic to get to a match at 6.30 or 7pm on a Friday night.

The BBL also averaged 30,000 per game. There is only one ground that can hold that number in England, 2 if the Olympic stadium is used. The demographics show that a comparison with the BBL is foolhardy.

Ultimately, England doesnt have the concentration of people or the size of stadia to match the BBL.
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Old 7th February 2017, 20:06   #1012
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Then why are so they keen on getting feedback from members then? Are you seriously suggesting they want to find out what current fans don't want in order to attract new ones?

[QUOTE ]There are fewer than 50,000 county members in the whole country. That's less than the number who attended a single match in some of the BBL fixtures. [QUITE]
Freudian slip of the year.
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Old 7th February 2017, 20:13   #1013
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The question that still hasnt been answered is if the Birmingham Bears (for all intents and purposes a city based team) cant sell out Edgbaston how is another Birmingham team going to sell 25,000 tickets on a regular basis on top of the Blast?

Having both comps in one summer is a crazy idea. One or the other, fine.

And if its a franchise based league then those ploughing in their pounds are gonna want a return. They arent going to do it as some sort of altruistic act.

Here's a stat to mull over: 62% of Australians live in the 5 largest cities. In England that drops to 33% and that is in urban areas rather than cities. People arent gonna travel great distances during rush hour traffic to get to a match at 6.30 or 7pm on a Friday night.

The BBL also averaged 30,000 per game. There is only one ground that can hold that number in England, 2 if the Olympic stadium is used. The demographics show that a comparison with the BBL is foolhardy.
Aston Villa AND Birmingham City seem to sell 25,000+ tickets on a regular basis, so the market in Birmingham seems to be there.

They seem to manage with the rush hour traffic ok.

So if your argument against franchise cricket boils down to the stadiums are too small....
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Old 7th February 2017, 20:21   #1014
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Aston Villa AND Birmingham City seem to sell 25,000+ tickets on a regular basis, so the market in Birmingham seems to be there.

They seem to manage with the rush hour traffic ok.

So if your argument against franchise cricket boils down to the stadiums are too small....
Ah, the old football comparison. That age old crutch. Talk about running before you can walk. The level of interest in football is light years ahead of any other sport in this country. Some footballer farts and Sky Sports are spontaneously exploding over it.

I've never said i'm against franchise cricket. What i am against is a franchise comp and the Blast in the same season. The franchise league is a good idea, but the ECB are being too greedy. The Aussies werent daft enough to shoehorn the BBL into the same season as its predecessor. And they also were sensible enough to keep each team to 4 home games. If you live in one of the major cities there'll potentially be 11 games between the Blast and the franchise comp.
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Old 7th February 2017, 20:27   #1015
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I was aware of cricket.

I wasn't aware when C5 were showing their Big Bash games.

Remember the C5 Big Bash viewing figures were your argument that there's no appetite for cricket in this country, whereas others pointed to the Ashes 2005 as the reach cricket can have in this country.

I'm happy to try and answer any substantive points you may make, but you'll need to make one first.
You haven't even said in an ideal world which channel you want it on. You have already said you want every game televised, so what time would they start? And you said it needs to be promoted properly, so say how. Put together some sort of plan for me, how are you going to appeal to those who don't currently watch cricket? Why is a team called Storm or any other generic franchise name going to be easier market than Yorkshire?

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Freudian slip of the year.
Using the phrase 'Genuine LOL' is a bit worse, and you did that on purpose.

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Here's a stat to mull over: 62% of Australians live in the 5 largest cities. In England that drops to 33% and that is in urban areas rather than cities. Admittedly the totals are roughly the same but a large proportion of that 33% are in London and unless there are gonna be 4 teams based in the capital then there is not enough people elsewhere to make it all add up. People arent gonna travel great distances during rush hour traffic to get to a match at 6.30 or 7pm on a Friday night.

The BBL also averaged 30,000 per game. There is only one ground that can hold that number in England, 2 if the Olympic stadium is used. The demographics show that a comparison with the BBL is foolhardy.

Ultimately, England doesnt have the concentration of people or the size of stadia to match the BBL.
I think this point has been made at least 20 times on this thread. If it hasn't sunk in now it never will.
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Old 7th February 2017, 20:30   #1016
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Lets also not forget the lessons of the Champions League T20. Hosted 4 out of 6 occasions in India, a country that surely couldnt get enough T20 cricket and was thinking about a second IPL and yet the CL tournament, despite heavily featuring IPL teams, was an absolute slump with the public.

Having the 'market' doesnt guarantee success.
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Old 7th February 2017, 21:08   #1017
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It's why I think they need to be quite conservative in the first year, make it like a festival as the original T20 competition was to test the waters. I don't really buy the argument that we are massively different to Australia, these are much smaller grounds and millions live within a relatively short journey of each city so I think there will be enough curiosity to fill them. Some people clearly don't which is up to them but there's only one way to find out and that's to do it.
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Old 7th February 2017, 21:58   #1018
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It's why I think they need to be quite conservative in the first year, make it like a festival as the original T20 competition was to test the waters. I don't really buy the argument that we are massively different to Australia, these are much smaller grounds and millions live within a relatively short journey of each city so I think there will be enough curiosity to fill them. Some people clearly don't which is up to them but there's only one way to find out and that's to do it.
Wise words, sharky.

CDogg16 take note. You're locked in the wrong century, pal. Probably not even the 20th but the 19th.

If you want to save red ball cricket,as you claim, you need to get your head out of the sand and stop trying to dream up fatuous reasons to claim 'it won't work' and start counting the 23.4 million per annum which it is going to pump into the county game - and which is the only thing that is going to preserve the future of the format which we both agree we love best.

In any case the argument is now gratuitous. It's a done deal. Guaranteed to go through in March almost unanimously, with Surrey as the only potential vote still against.
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Old 8th February 2017, 06:19   #1019
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Wise words, sharky.

CDogg16 take note. You're locked in the wrong century, pal. Probably not even the 20th but the 19th.

If you want to save red ball cricket,as you claim, you need to get your head out of the sand and stop trying to dream up fatuous reasons to claim 'it won't work' and start counting the 23.4 million per annum which it is going to pump into the county game - and which is the only thing that is going to preserve the future of the format which we both agree we love best.

In any case the argument is now gratuitous. It's a done deal. Guaranteed to go through in March almost unanimously, with Surrey as the only potential vote still against.
Is there any basis for this figure or is it just one plucked out of the air to placate the counties? I work in finance and any time big numbers are bandied around there's always a question of whether there is any sound basis behind them or whether they are bandied around to keep people happy.

Surrey not being on board could be a big deal. The Oval would obviously be one of the grounds to be used but is there a potential that Surrey will say no to it being used?

Then there's the Olympic Stadium. Hiring that wont come cheap.
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Old 8th February 2017, 07:45   #1020
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I don't think franchise cricket will work - at least it won't be the great success and money spinner that the ECB Or maybe its 'consultants') claim. It will, however, have a seriously damaging effect on the T20 competition (& maybe other competitions) being run by the counties. The results will be damaging for the counties - and some may not survive in their current form.

I reserve the right to say 'I told you so' in future...

But, hey, some players, and, no doubt, all the consultants will do well out of this...
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