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Old 10th August 2015, 06:36   #101
Tiscoli
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Well yes there seems to be a lot of confusion, not helped by newspaper articles (reports?) claiming to identify the locations for games and saying that Sky have offered 40m, though the period wasn't specified. And if Sky have to make an offer, presumably others, such as BT, can do so which might be a whole different ball game!

My mind keeps drifting back to the time when Graves had his ill-advised conversations with and about KP. Perhaps my memory is faulty but I seem to remember that others had to help dig him out of that particular hole. Perhaps the same thing might be happening with regard to the city "franchises".

All pure speculation, of course...
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Old 10th August 2015, 15:37   #102
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I see there have been 28 bids for the six franchises in the women's T20 competition. It'd be interesting who they are, and it indicates that there would be plenty of interest in setting up men's teams, contrary to the perception of many who think there'd be no appetite for it.
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Old 10th August 2015, 17:27   #103
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A form of the game with very little tradition behind it decides on a course of action and a form of the game with a very strong one is likely to take the same course. I see.

People would not go to see a city based franchise form of the game in their droves.
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Old 10th August 2015, 20:09   #104
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A form of the game with very little tradition behind it decides on a course of action and a form of the game with a very strong one is likely to take the same course. I see.

People would not go to see a city based franchise form of the game in their droves.
Other people might though. The full crowds at TB, Oval or lords aren't probably that fussed about whether they are seeing a county or a city. If they that loyal to their county they'd be going to the other formats as well.
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Old 10th August 2015, 20:45   #105
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I see there have been 28 bids for the six franchises in the women's T20 competition. It'd be interesting who they are, and it indicates that there would be plenty of interest in setting up men's teams, contrary to the perception of many who think there'd be no appetite for it.
Think the key difference is that there is virtually no current interest in the womens county game (one woman and a dog!), so there is no current fanbase that needs to be considered - its actually a huge advantage that they can start from virtually nothing - the only way is up!
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Old 10th August 2015, 21:15   #106
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The full crowds at TB, Oval or lords aren't probably that fussed about whether they are seeing a county or a city.
In that case why not just leave things as they are?
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Old 10th August 2015, 21:34   #107
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Other people might though. The full crowds at TB, Oval or lords aren't probably that fussed about whether they are seeing a county or a city. If they that loyal to their county they'd be going to the other formats as well.
Not sure if I'd go. If there were some top players on show I might but I wouldn't really care about the outcome.
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Old 10th August 2015, 22:06   #108
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In that case why not just leave things as they are?
Yeah, maybe. Could we match that interest elsewhere?
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Old 10th August 2015, 22:06   #109
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Not sure if I'd go. If there were some top players on show I might but I wouldn't really care about the outcome.
Many probably don't already
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Old 10th August 2015, 22:31   #110
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Yeah, maybe. Could we match that interest elsewhere?
Taunton sold out all but the first t20 match and we were ****.
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Old 11th August 2015, 00:33   #111
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I'm only assuming as thankfully there haven't as yet been any official proposals.

But:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/...ry/820095.html

Here (in Australia), franchises are owned by Cricket Australia (who offered a 33% stake to private investors, though no one has taken up the offer) with all profits pumped money back into the sport. The Australian model would certainly be more palatable to English traditions.

Of course, the counties would be expected to be involved, in terms of providing venues, and making players available. The incentive is of course, as above, that they get money in return.

This is completely different to the 'Birmingham Bears', which is just Warwickshire CCC adopting a different team name for t20.

Of course this leads to your next question.



Well, yes, that's at the heart of the issue.

And likewise would they agree to a big gap in the season to accommodate this (and you can guess how that gap would be created - less county games)?

What would supporter reaction be?

Would they play county games during the same period, be that Championship, the t20 Cup or RL 50, with terribly weakened sides?

But would they agree to these if it all stacked up to making more money?

IMHO it would be a real gamble. What if this was agreed and attendances and viewing figures were terrible and the whole thing were soon scrapped?
If it didnt actually work, they could just drop it again. Hardly a big issue.
County sides would not be terribly weakened. With just 8 teams and all the worlds top players involved, its likely that 90% of county players can put their feet up for the duration of the
tournament, essentially using it as abreak ready for several back to back four-dayers afterwards.

Its probably true that counties would use such a tournament as an argument in favour of playing less FC cricket but that is essentially just an excuse because playing less is on their agenda anyway.

I cant understand the hostility to such a proposal. County cricket can continue completly the way it wants to apart from a short break and at the same time cricket might finally achieve the platform it so desperately needs to sustain its long term popularity. Currently a child going to the wrong School and not having sky might as well grow up in bu!garia as far as being exposed to cricket is concerned
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Old 11th August 2015, 00:40   #112
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A form of the game with very little tradition behind it decides on a course of action and a form of the game with a very strong one is likely to take the same course. I see.

People would not go to see a city based franchise form of the game in their droves.
Are you sure no one would go see broad bowl to mccullum before gayle faces Anderson or steyn tries to get rid of root. All possibly on the bbc or ITV, wathced by millions. Dont forget that with only eight teams and all the top players available there might be some serious talent at all games.
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Old 11th August 2015, 06:57   #113
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Are you sure no one would go see broad bowl to mccullum before gayle faces Anderson or steyn tries to get rid of root. All possibly on the bbc or ITV, wathced by millions. Dont forget that with only eight teams and all the top players available there might be some serious talent at all games.
This post and the one above about kids might as well be in Bulgaria overlook the point that sky are leading the crusade. Do you think that sky are driving this because
A) they see it as another cash cow where they would limit availability in this country but own the TV rights to sell abroad; or
B) so that they can ensure all matches are on terrestrial TV.


You say 90 per cent of county cricketers would put their feet up. Are you being serious? Each squad would need at least 16 players. If we say 5 from abroad then that would leave 11 spots. These 11 spots for the England players and county. So 9 or 10 on average for each franchise so with 18 counties and 8 franchises you are looking at at least five players per county. So unless you think that each county has almost fifty players then your 90% putting feet up is plain wrong.

Some counties will obviously lose more players so the thought that the county season could carry on is flawed. How could the championship continue when some sides will be 8 or 9 players down?

So with it being on sky and in fewer locations could you explain how this would improve access?

If the matches take place in a block then how many parents could afford to take their whole family to home games? Currently t20 averages about two or three home games a month and is relatively cheap. If there were 6 in a few weeks then families could not afford this. So who would attend? Adults going for a boozy night? This would bring more money but if this is the aim then let's stop pretending it is to get more kids watching.

I was at the test match and I was struck by how few kids I saw. Far more at t20 matches and I would imagine the franchise system would attract more of a drinking crowd than family crowd. Let's not compare to big bash because they have huge stadia so cheap tickets for families which won't happen here.
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Old 11th August 2015, 08:35   #114
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Are you sure no one would go see broad bowl to mccullum before gayle faces Anderson or steyn tries to get rid of root. All possibly on the bbc or ITV, wathced by millions. Dont forget that with only eight teams and all the top players available there might be some serious talent at all games.
Isn't that what international matches are for?

Shouldn't these sort of clashes be the icing on the cake, the special cricketing moments to be savoured - those that stay in the memory, like Donald v Atherton, Lillee v Botham, Broad v Clarke, etc?

I don't want these rammed down my throat three times a week in a circus tournament. There is already a surfeit of international cricket as it is.
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Old 11th August 2015, 09:18   #115
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Isn't that what international matches are for?
It's also what the Championship used to be for. Viv Richards v Mike Procter, Barry Richards and Gordon Greenidge v Wayne Daniel, Emburey and Edmonds, Glenn Turner v Garner and Botham, Clive Lloyd v Bedi and Mushtaq....

I don't recall hordes turning out to see those clashes, though.
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Old 11th August 2015, 09:42   #116
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It's also what the Championship used to be for. Viv Richards v Mike Procter, Barry Richards and Gordon Greenidge v Wayne Daniel, Emburey and Edmonds, Glenn Turner v Garner and Botham, Clive Lloyd v Bedi and Mushtaq....

I don't recall hordes turning out to see those clashes, though.
These days the media got excited by Jamie Overton bowling a brilliantly hostile spell to Paul collingwood who dug in and won the match for his side.
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Old 11th August 2015, 09:43   #117
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In that case why not just leave things as they are?
Good point, well made.

I think Sky conducted some research into the proposal a couple of years ago and concluded that, from the public interest point of view, and therefore sponsorship attraction and advertising revenue points of view, it was a non-starter.
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Old 11th August 2015, 09:45   #118
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Are you sure no one would go see broad bowl to mccullum before gayle faces Anderson or steyn tries to get rid of root. All possibly on the bbc or ITV, wathced by millions. Dont forget that with only eight teams and all the top players available there might be some serious talent at all games.
In a match considered fairly meaningless, the outcome of which few people cared about? No, I don't think they would.
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Old 11th August 2015, 10:36   #119
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In a match considered fairly meaningless, the outcome of which few people cared about? No, I don't think they would.
You also have to wonder whether people with only a passing interest in the game will be that aware who Brendon McCullum and Chris Gayle are.

However, I suspect the ECB may be putting their faith in the 'Big Event' mentality that is increasingly evident in the UK. There's a heap of folks who will attend a high status gathering without necessarily being that interested in the fare on offer. Lord's Tests these days are invariably sold out, or close to it, but there are always thousands there doing everything but watching the cricket. I have plentiful associates who'll never attend a gig at a pub or small to medium sized venue but will annually pay the crown jewels to see the biggest show of the year at The O2 Arena. London Zoo cottoned on to this trend and introduced their 'Zoo Lates' during Summer evenings, allowing punters to drink alcohol, eat fast food and wear silly masks whilst viewing the animals; I went along one night and the place was mobbed, but I got the feeling that at least 40% of the crowd were there purely for the jolly up and had very little real interest in the animals.

It's notable that the Middx v Surrey T20 game at Lord's regularly attracts an enormous crowd, regardless of how the teams might be faring in the competition. I fancy this is now another fixture of 'The Season' rather than 'The Cricket Season'.

So, a Big City T20 might just enjoy wide appeal and, with Sky bankrolling the show, the financial gamble should be minimal. But I'm more concerned with the losses to the domestic structure that will inevitably be made to accommodate such a project. Because, as we know from past experience, once a feature has gone, we don't often get it back.
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Old 11th August 2015, 10:52   #120
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Nice post summer 77. I agree re the people who will attend. The argument it is for families is just hot air. It will become something to be seen at. Fine if all that matters is money but does anyone really think it will improve participation rates?
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