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Old 20th October 2017, 16:31   #1761
gmdf
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Matthew Engel has changes in county - and international - cricket in his sights in this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...0-test-matches


Quote:
I don’t care about the St Lucia Zouks. And I won’t care about whatever names the 12-year‑olds in marketing invent for the new made-up teams when the existing English Twenty20 is engulfed by yet another new competition in the years ahead. This wretched idea was sold to the county chairmen by bribery – an annual £1.3m sweetener per county – with a tacit undercurrent of threat.

My only interest – in common with many other cricket lovers – is the hope that the damnable thing is a total flop and that we can somehow save the game I once adored, and still love more than the people who have seized control of it. One can say that athletics is in crisis but at least we can be sure that, as long as humanity survives, kids will still try to run faster than their classmates. Cricket’s crisis is an existential one.

Everything worthwhile about it is being destroyed: its culture that the umpire’s decision is final; the delicate balance between bat and ball as the game degenerates into a six-hitting contest; and that even more delicate balance between individual and team that made it imperative for even the most militant individualists not to laugh out loud if one’s own magnificent century failed to save the team from defeat.
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Old 20th October 2017, 17:29   #1762
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Cricket will face an existential crisis if that's the only three worthwhile things about it.

So we must find a way of stopping those stuck in the past like Engels talking it down by reducing it to such nonsense. The balance between bat and ball is still very much there. Despite the naysayers bowlers haven't been replaced with bowling machines whilst spinners have received increased opportunity from limited overs cricket not less as he and his ilk predicted.

If the balance between bat and ball has been destroyed how come fewer overs are now bowled by part-timers? If the bat has won why do teams persist in picking specialist bowlers?
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Old 20th October 2017, 22:48   #1763
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Cricket will face an existential crisis if that's the only three worthwhile things about it.

So we must find a way of stopping those stuck in the past like Engels talking it down by reducing it to such nonsense. The balance between bat and ball is still very much there. Despite the naysayers bowlers haven't been replaced with bowling machines whilst spinners have received increased opportunity from limited overs cricket not less as he and his ilk predicted.

If the balance between bat and ball has been destroyed how come fewer overs are now bowled by part-timers? If the bat has won why do teams persist in picking specialist bowlers?
Well said, GBG. The threat to cricket's existence comes from sad and petulant old men stuck in the past trying to prevent the game from evolving with the the times.

Change is the only way cricket will survive. This Engel's reactionary Rees-Mogg-like conservatism is as outdated as the revolutionary communism once espoused by his (near) namesake.

Matthew Engel and those who agree with him are the enemy within and if they succeeded in imposing their selfish, elitist prescription on our sport there would be no game of cricket left for our grandchildren.

Fortunately they are just a bunch of bitter and irrelevant old has-beens of whom the ECB rightly takes zero notice!
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Old 20th October 2017, 23:19   #1764
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Originally Posted by WeAreKent View Post
Well said, GBG. The threat to cricket's existence comes from sad and petulant old men stuck in the past trying to prevent the game from evolving with the the times.

Change is the only way cricket will survive. This Engel's reactionary Rees-Mogg-like conservatism is as outdated as the revolutionary communism once espoused by his (near) namesake.

Matthew Engel and those who agree with him are the enemy within and if they succeeded in imposing their selfish, elitist prescription on our sport there would be no game of cricket left for our grandchildren.

Fortunately they are just a bunch of bitter and irrelevant old has-beens of whom the ECB rightly takes zero notice!
How to say the same thing as the post you're quoting but with added

Coz needless to say...
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Old 21st October 2017, 00:39   #1765
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Change is the only way cricket will survive. This Engel's reactionary Rees-Mogg-like conservatism is as outdated as the revolutionary communism once espoused by his (near) namesake.

Matthew Engel and those who agree with him are the enemy within and if they succeeded in imposing their selfish, elitist prescription on our sport there would be no game of cricket left for our grandchildren.
Change or perish. This reminds me of the rise of New Labour in the mid-Nineties. The response of some on the left was that the changes took the party so profoundly far away from what it once was, they had no interest in it surviving. I don't have grandchildren but, if I did, I'm not sure that cricket existing only as a white ball game within 25 years is something I'd wish to bequeath them.

But my opinions, and those of Engel ultimately, are irrelevant. They hold no power. Red ball county cricket fans are a piddling peripheral element and have been for a good few years now. We know we're right in many of our grievances but we (should) also know that our voices mean diddly squat. No harm in allowing us to shout at the sea; it makes us feel better, at least.
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Old 21st October 2017, 01:43   #1766
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And needless to say...
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Old 21st October 2017, 09:03   #1767
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Matthew Engel as Rees-Mogg? Really? Whilst I wouldn't claim to know Engel's personal politics, looking at what he's written over the years, and the fact that he worked for the Guardian for 25 years or so, would suggest he comes from the left or at least the centre of politics. So likening him to the egregious twerp R-M is simply wrong. Fake news as we might call it.

But then some of the posters here are never going to agree - that's fine, maybe even healthy, but rather than argue with facts, and allowing for the fact that no one person is likely to be 100% correct, they simply denigrate (as with Engel's opinion above) any who dare to agree with them.

And one particular poster seems to make a career out of this. Essentially it is simply bullying: agree with me or you are "selfish", "elitist", "the enemy within", "bitter", "irrelevant" etc etc.

Pathetic. The vituperative outpourings of a poster who has been banned from other platforms exactly for using this type of language.

Since ignoring him I only see his views if they are quoted by others. But I'd rather more ignored him so he either learns to debate reasonably or gives up and goes away.
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Old 21st October 2017, 09:53   #1768
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Change or perish. This reminds me of the rise of New Labour in the mid-Nineties. The response of some on the left was that the changes took the party so profoundly far away from what it once was, they had no interest in it surviving. I don't have grandchildren but, if I did, I'm not sure that cricket existing only as a white ball game within 25 years is something I'd wish to bequeath them.

But my opinions, and those of Engel ultimately, are irrelevant. They hold no power. Red ball county cricket fans are a piddling peripheral element and have been for a good few years now. We know we're right in many of our grievances but we (should) also know that our voices mean diddly squat. No harm in allowing us to shout at the sea; it makes us feel better, at least.
I can't help being old. I'd love to slow down the ageing process but I can't. However I can still recognise BS and aggression when I see it and I'm still prepared to fight what I see as wrong. And I do have a voice, as a county member, even if my voice is small and may get lost in the greater scheme of things.

Like Summer of 77 I have no grandchildren but I would be very sorry if only white ball cricket survived for the next generations. Although I am slowly falling out of love with the game for various reasons, it's still one of my passions, behind music.

But I don't believe everything I'm told, especially if the telling is done by money men, PR types and politicians. What I do know is that there are quite a lot of us who actually watch cricket by attending games. We are at least a real audience and not a group which exists only in the minds of the so-called visionaries. I'll stop now as it's time to take my tablets.
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Old 21st October 2017, 10:03   #1769
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I can't help being old. I'd love to slow down the ageing process but I can't. However I can still recognise BS and aggression when I see it and I'm still prepared to fight what I see as wrong. And I do have a voice, as a county member, even if my voice is small and may get lost in the greater scheme of things.

Like Summer of 77 I have no grandchildren but I would be very sorry if only white ball cricket survived for the next generations. Although I am slowly falling out of love with the game for various reasons, it's still one of my passions, behind music.

But I don't believe everything I'm told, especially if the telling is done by money men, PR types and politicians. What I do know is that there are quite a lot of us who actually watch cricket by attending games. We are at least a real audience and not a group which exists only in the minds of the so-called visionaries. I'll stop now as it's time to take my tablets.




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Old 21st October 2017, 11:00   #1770
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Originally Posted by gmdf View Post
Matthew Engel has changes in county - and international - cricket in his sights in this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...0-test-matches
An insightful (apart from the Boycott criticism) and well written article, I thought. I don't share the author's optimism that it may influence those who need to be influenced to help divert test cricket from its route to extinction, though. They are the people who benefit most, financially, from the dumbing down of cricket.

Any road up, why should we expect cricket to be immune from this phenomenon?

Cherish it whilst we have it, I suppose.

Altogether, now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2xxrvNZSW4
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Old 21st October 2017, 12:51   #1771
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And I do have a voice, as a county member, even if my voice is small and may get lost in the greater scheme of things.
Yes, I perhaps termed that incorrectly. We members have a voice but no actual power. I'm always amused at suggestions that cricket could develop much more quickly were it not for entrenched county members. Those members were against four day cricket, two divisions, central contracts, the very introduction of limited overs cricket, but all were rolled out. Our voice is thus akin to that of a local authority electorate when given the chance to participate in a consultation exercise - we can offer an overwhelming point of view, but the proposal will go ahead regardless.

I should point out that I'm not anti-white ball. I'm younger than limited overs cricket and it's given me ample pleasure down the years. I think it highly probable that I attended more days of white ball stuff than any other message board member last season. My problem is not that it exists or that it evolves (it has to) but that its relationship with f-c cricket is changing to a dangerous degree. Where once it was the supporter of the traditional game, it's rapidly become as, if not more important and could soon swamp it entirely. I don't believe that it necessarily has to be this way.
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Old 21st October 2017, 13:52   #1772
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Matthew Engel as Rees-Mogg? Really? Whilst I wouldn't claim to know Engel's personal politics, looking at what he's written over the years, and the fact that he worked for the Guardian for 25 years or so, would suggest he comes from the left or at least the centre of politics. So likening him to the egregious twerp R-M is simply wrong. Fake news as we might call it.

But then some of the posters here are never going to agree - that's fine, maybe even healthy, but rather than argue with facts, and allowing for the fact that no one person is likely to be 100% correct, they simply denigrate (as with Engel's opinion above) any who dare to agree with them.

And one particular poster seems to make a career out of this. Essentially it is simply bullying: agree with me or you are "selfish", "elitist", "the enemy within", "bitter", "irrelevant" etc etc.

Pathetic.

Your abuse reminds me of something Winston Churchill said in describing people like you : "Some people's idea of free speech is that they are free to say what they like, but anyone says anything back, that is an outrage" .

Except you're even worse - when anybody dares to disagree with you, you direct personal abuse at them and then follow up with the nauseating "'Im being bullied, I'm a victim" schtick.

Time and again you are the one who has acted the bullying scholmaster on here. You've been suspended form countless forums for it at different times and I'm led to believe you are on a final warning from this site? I hope you haven't just used it up.

You're a bit of a narcisissist, too, aren't you? The discussion wasn't even anything to do with you. Had you said a word in it until out of the blue you come out with that pile of abusive bile and character assasination? Had anybody even mentioned you?

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Old 22nd October 2017, 12:25   #1773
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...Change is the only way cricket will survive. ...
Gradual change is fine and inevitable and has helped cricket to survive until now.

The danger with sudden and drastic change (such as reducing test matches to four day's play, thereby releasing more days for T20), however, is that the game may quickly evolve into something barely recognisable as cricket.

Successive generations will then be denied the opportunity to appreciate the more skilful and subtle aspects of the longer game and limited to a monotonous diet of white ball cricket, which would be a great shame.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 20:45   #1774
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There's a lot of faux outrage on this thread but anyhow, changes in the game of cricket will now be driven more and more in India. The English domestic game will become the cricketing equivalent of Brazilian and Argentine club football - popular maybe but far inferior to the bigger leagues in a far away continent. Good English players will increasingly follow Jos Buttler's lead, like a larger number of "mercenary" overseas cricketers have done already, and shun the county game.

The likes of Engel's article is just whistling in the wind.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 10:32   #1775
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Your abuse reminds me of something Winston Churchill said in describing people like you : "Some people's idea of free speech is that they are free to say what they like, but anyone says anything back, that is an outrage" .

Except you're even worse - when anybody dares to disagree with you, you direct personal abuse at them and then follow up with the nauseating "'Im being bullied, I'm a victim" schtick.

Time and again you are the one who has acted the bullying scholmaster on here. You've been suspended form countless forums for it at different times and I'm led to believe you are on a final warning from this site? I hope you haven't just used it up.

You're a bit of a narcisissist, too, aren't you? The discussion wasn't even anything to do with you. Had you said a word in it until out of the blue you come out with that pile of abusive bile and character assasination? Had anybody even mentioned you?

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Old 23rd October 2017, 10:45   #1776
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Crikey me! Wind your neck in chap.
Don't worry - that sort of rant is par for his particular course. (Or maybe 'coarse' )

Three parts invective to two of personal abuse on a sea of factual inaccuracy...
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Old 23rd October 2017, 11:35   #1777
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... Good English players will increasingly follow Jos Buttler's lead, like a larger number of "mercenary" overseas cricketers have done already, and shun the county game. ...
Buttler seems to be in a small minority though, at least as far as UK players are concerned. There are actually very few UK players good enough to feature regularly in the overseas megabucks leagues. Of those who are, many will also be good enough to have a decent test career and will pursue the county route accordingly. There may even be some who prefer the county game, with its proper colleagues, long-format games, and domestic circuit, rather than joining the overpaid international jet-set.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 11:54   #1778
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Buttler seems to be in a small minority though, at least as far as UK players are concerned. There are actually very few UK players good enough to feature regularly in the overseas megabucks leagues. Of those who are, many will also be good enough to have a decent test career and will pursue the county route accordingly. There may even be some who prefer the county game, with its proper colleagues, long-format games, and domestic circuit, rather than joining the overpaid international jet-set.
Yes, there were fears seven or eight years ago that vast numbers of English pros would go missing to the IPL, but it's never happened. In any case, there remains a far greater number of overseas cricketers who are attracted to the English game, some even being prepared to abandon their international careers to secure work in England.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 11:59   #1779
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Yes, there were fears seven or eight years ago that vast numbers of English pros would go missing to the IPL, but it's never happened. In any case, there remains a far greater number of overseas cricketers who are attracted to the English game, some even being prepared to abandon their international careers to secure work in England.
It wasn't an insignificant number who went though earlier this year. The likes of Roy, Morgan, Billings, Mills, Woakes and Stokes took the rupee as far as I recall and I'm sure I'm missing a few. Now that IPL bosses see that our good old blast really isn't too bad, they are less hesitant about shelling out a few bucks for some of the players around. This might only increase when the new competition comes into existence too. The likes of Roy and Billings worry me because IMO they have had the talent to be more than just short form stars.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 12:13   #1780
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It wasn't an insignificant number who went though earlier this year. The likes of Roy, Morgan, Billings, Mills, Woakes and Stokes took the rupee as far as I recall and I'm sure I'm missing a few. Now that IPL bosses see that our good old blast really isn't too bad, they are less hesitant about shelling out a few bucks for some of the players around. This might only increase when the new competition comes into existence too. The likes of Roy and Billings worry me because IMO they have had the talent to be more than just short form stars.
Jordan as well. Still only 7 out of around 270 English pros at present.

The new competition, whilst making English players more marketable, will also - apparently - attract two dozen of the world's elite white ball players to play in England.

The footballing analogy doesn't really work because football league seasons go on for the best part of a year. Domestic T20 tournaments are short snappy affairs, so it's possible for players to participate in several during one year. In theory, this should ensure a continual exchange of high quality players, thus enhancing the game across a variety of regions.

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