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Old 9th February 2017, 22:57   #41
CDogg16
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We wont be growing the game because of the stats.

Will somebody think of the stats, please think of the stats!
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Old 14th February 2017, 18:08   #42
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So now that Adam Voges has retired and left an enormous anomaly in the stats can we have some more test teams?!
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Old 14th February 2017, 18:54   #43
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Perhaps the fact that a player of Voges' mediocrity can pile up the runs by playing a bunch of one-sided tests against weak opposition would make people think a bit harder about whether we should be scheduling more one-sided matches. And not just for the stats but because they make pretty **** viewing.
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Old 14th February 2017, 19:04   #44
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Perhaps the fact that a player of Voges' mediocrity can pile up the runs by playing a bunch of one-sided tests against weak opposition would make people think a bit harder about whether we should be scheduling more one-sided matches. And not just for the stats but because they make pretty **** viewing.
Or maybe not get so uptight about numbers.
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Old 14th February 2017, 20:50   #45
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Or maybe not get so uptight about numbers.
He did mention the viewing quality. To be honest, any test in which Voges made runs probably wasn't a great watch.
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Old 14th February 2017, 20:55   #46
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He did mention the viewing quality. To be honest, any test in which Voges made runs probably wasn't a great watch.
In which case the majority of test series at the moment should be scrapped. There arent that many even contests.
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Old 14th February 2017, 21:27   #47
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Nice one Adam Voges, a fair old stat to have that!
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Old 14th February 2017, 22:51   #48
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In which case the majority of test series at the moment should be scrapped. There arent that many even contests.
And why is that? Do you think adding more sides is going to improve the quality of tests? I foresee more one sided series, more packed cricketing calendars, more rushed series with underprepared touring sides, more players taking time out of the game to rest or recuperate.

Are the people supporting these changes happy to have three test Ashes series or 2 match series v India, South Africa so we can play more games v Ireland and Afghanistan?
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Old 14th February 2017, 22:58   #49
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Perhaps the fact that a player of Voges' mediocrity can pile up the runs by playing a bunch of one-sided tests against weak opposition would make people think a bit harder about whether we should be scheduling more one-sided matches. And not just for the stats but because they make pretty **** viewing.
So there's going to no India vs England series for a while then? Hopefully we can call off the next Ashes and keep them for an extra few years, because playing in Australia seems pointless when England have lost 11 of the last 15 tests. And Australia shouldn't be allowed to tour Asia either seeing as it seems to be foregone conclusion that they will lose.
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Old 15th February 2017, 14:05   #50
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And why is that? Do you think adding more sides is going to improve the quality of tests? I foresee more one sided series, more packed cricketing calendars, more rushed series with underprepared touring sides, more players taking time out of the game to rest or recuperate.

Are the people supporting these changes happy to have three test Ashes series or 2 match series v India, South Africa so we can play more games v Ireland and Afghanistan?
Nope, a two tier structure. Have already advocated that. But then the protectors of the stats didnt like that either.

The current situation is not going to help make test series more even is it? Why shouldnt Afghanistan and Ireland get a shot at the likes of Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and the WI when they can't consistently compete at the highest level?

We have a situation where those teams can be as rubbish as they like safe in the knowledge that they will keep test / full-member status whilst other countries have to prove they are of test standard without getting their best players poached. That is myopic.

How are Afganistan and Ireland going to prove they are up to the standard of the likes of Zimbabwe, West Indies, Sri Lanka (in away series) and Bangladesh (again in away series) if they never get the chance?

Or is the sport simply to contract just to try and maintain some sort of status quo? (And likely failing)
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Old 15th February 2017, 14:06   #51
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So there's going to no India vs England series for a while then? Hopefully we can call off the next Ashes and keep them for an extra few years, because playing in Australia seems pointless when England have lost 11 of the last 15 tests. And Australia shouldn't be allowed to tour Asia either seeing as it seems to be foregone conclusion that they will lose.
Losing heavily is okay as long as its to another full member / test playing nation.
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Old 15th February 2017, 19:21   #52
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So there's going to no India vs England series for a while then? Hopefully we can call off the next Ashes and keep them for an extra few years, because playing in Australia seems pointless when England have lost 11 of the last 15 tests. And Australia shouldn't be allowed to tour Asia either seeing as it seems to be foregone conclusion that they will lose.
Well, the real risk here is that test cricket is no longer seen as particularly exciting, interesting or relevant.

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Nope, a two tier structure. Have already advocated that. But then the protectors of the stats didnt like that either.

The current situation is not going to help make test series more even is it? Why shouldnt Afghanistan and Ireland get a shot at the likes of Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and the WI when they can't consistently compete at the highest level?

We have a situation where those teams can be as rubbish as they like safe in the knowledge that they will keep test / full-member status whilst other countries have to prove they are of test standard without getting their best players poached. That is myopic.

How are Afganistan and Ireland going to prove they are up to the standard of the likes of Zimbabwe, West Indies, Sri Lanka (in away series) and Bangladesh (again in away series) if they never get the chance?

Or is the sport simply to contract just to try and maintain some sort of status quo? (And likely failing)
Zimbabwe should probably be stripped of test status anyway, if not just thrown out of all cricket. In your two tier version of test cricket would the lower and upper tier sides ever play each other? I could imagine that any prolonged stint in the lower tier for the West Indies or Sri Lanka could kill off tests in those places too.

I actually understand why people are keen to extend the game, but I think doing so through tests is the wrong way. Test cricket has some systemic issues already, the "product" is poor, there is too much of it and several sides are not competitive. Unless these problems are addressed, simply adding more sides to the pot will not be particularly successful.
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Old 16th February 2017, 12:54   #53
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Well, the real risk here is that test cricket is no longer seen as particularly exciting, interesting or relevant.



Zimbabwe should probably be stripped of test status anyway, if not just thrown out of all cricket. In your two tier version of test cricket would the lower and upper tier sides ever play each other? I could imagine that any prolonged stint in the lower tier for the West Indies or Sri Lanka could kill off tests in those places too.

I actually understand why people are keen to extend the game, but I think doing so through tests is the wrong way. Test cricket has some systemic issues already, the "product" is poor, there is too much of it and several sides are not competitive. Unless these problems are addressed, simply adding more sides to the pot will not be particularly successful.
At present Test cricket is restricted to ten countries. There are billions of people in the world who will never be able to dream of representing their side in the pinnacle of the game. That isn't the mark of a sport that is truly global. It isn't a 'product' to sell, it's a sport. And as for the quality not being good, do you think Moldova vs Cyprus is a football fixture high on quality? A Test between Holland and Ireland might be a damn site more interesting than watching Australia get walloped by India. With this elitist approach it is no wonder cricket fails to compete with the bigger sports.
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Old 16th February 2017, 13:00   #54
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The football comparison is a bad one, isn't it? Football has a larger reach and far more general interest around the world. Are you suggesting it's realistic to have even countries that do play some cricket like the UAE, US or Canada achieve test status at any remotely foreseeable stage? Is it elitist to say that sides need to be at a certain standard to play tests or is it realistic and sensible?
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Old 16th February 2017, 13:07   #55
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The football comparison is a bad one, isn't it? Football has a larger reach and far more general interest around the world.
Maybe because everybody is allowed to play it.

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Are you suggesting it's realistic to have even countries that do play some cricket like the UAE, US or Canada achieve test status at any remotely foreseeable stage? Is it elitist to say that sides need to be at a certain standard to play tests or is it realistic and sensible?
I don't see why they couldn't play Test cricket against each other. In every other sport your allowed to play the game and if you prove yourself do enough you play against the better teams. In football nobody is told 'I don't think your good enough to play against Brazil, stick to the five a side.' Sport is supposed to be inclusive.
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Old 16th February 2017, 13:34   #56
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Maybe because everybody is allowed to play it.
Do you really think that's the reason? How about in countries where they play basically no cricket?

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I don't see why they couldn't play Test cricket against each other. In every other sport your allowed to play the game and if you prove yourself do enough you play against the better teams. In football nobody is told 'I don't think your good enough to play against Brazil, stick to the five a side.' Sport is supposed to be inclusive.
They could play longer form games but they don't play many because of a lack of interest. Calling the long form games they're mostly not playing test cricket would be entirely nominal, wouldn't it? The problem is the participation, quality and interest, not the designation.

Cricket is essentially a niche sport. I'm not necessarily against opening it up to more countries but developing the game around the world to be anything like football is wildly unrealistic. Apart from anything else, playing a game of international football is a totally different enterprise to playing a test match. I think Ali is spot on in suggesting that improving limited overs cricket is where the focus should be for now. If Ireland or Afghanistan manages a reasonable amount of success in T20 and ODIs and has enough first class structure to look like having a chance in test cricket then fair enough but otherwise it's tokenism.
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Old 16th February 2017, 13:40   #57
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Do you really think that's the reason? How about in countries where they play basically no cricket?



They could play longer form games but they don't play many because of a lack of interest. Calling the long form games they're mostly not playing test cricket would be entirely nominal, wouldn't it? The problem is the participation, quality and interest, not the designation.

Cricket is essentially a niche sport. I'm not necessarily against opening it up to more countries but developing the game around the world to be anything like football is wildly unrealistic. Apart from anything else, playing a game of international football is a totally different enterprise to playing a test match.
Hence why Giles Clarke in blocking t20 cricket for the Olympics was such a backward step. It would do a lot for the game around the world, even if it was only the miniature form of the game.
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Old 16th February 2017, 14:12   #58
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Hence why Giles Clarke in blocking t20 cricket for the Olympics was such a backward step. It would do a lot for the game around the world, even if it was only the miniature form of the game.
The Giles Clarke test is a lot like the Daily Mail test, isn't it?
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Old 16th February 2017, 14:23   #59
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The Giles Clarke test is a lot like the Daily Mail test, isn't it?
Too true.
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Old 16th February 2017, 14:25   #60
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Maybe because everybody is allowed to play it.



I don't see why they couldn't play Test cricket against each other. In every other sport your allowed to play the game and if you prove yourself do enough you play against the better teams. In football nobody is told 'I don't think your good enough to play against Brazil, stick to the five a side.' Sport is supposed to be inclusive.
They play first-class style matches against each other already and have done for years. If they can develop a professional first class game and show they have enough talent in the short forms that could translate into a decent enough team to provide some competition, then I'm all for it, but Ireland and Afghanistan are the only teams close and even then would need a gradual introduction.

I agree that having T20 in the Olympics would get places like China a bit more interested. Interestingly I was watching the Jamaica vs Trinidad match yesterday and Jamaica had an opening batsman who was born and raised in the USA who played excellently.
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