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Old 16th February 2017, 13:46   #61
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Old 16th February 2017, 16:58   #62
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They play first-class style matches against each other already and have done for years. If they can develop a professional first class game and show they have enough talent in the short forms that could translate into a decent enough team to provide some competition, then I'm all for it, but Ireland and Afghanistan are the only teams close and even then would need a gradual introduction.

I agree that having T20 in the Olympics would get places like China a bit more interested. Interestingly I was watching the Jamaica vs Trinidad match yesterday and Jamaica had an opening batsman who was born and raised in the USA who played excellently.
The ICC is much more concerned with internal squabbles than growing the game. For all his faults, and by no means did he do it for altrusic reason, but under Blatter FIFA did spread the game around the world. As for China, they had a plan in place to get to the 2019 WC, although I imagine this was scrapped when they realised what a closed shop the ICC are. If you look at what the Chinese are doing with football, if you scratch beneath the surface its so much more than big transfer fees, they would have probably been interested in doing something similar with cricket. Where were the ICC when it came to helping them reach their goals? Where were the ICC when Kenyan cricket ripped itself apart after reaching the semi finals of a World Cup?

While cricket has spent ten years debating whether Ireland should be allowed to play Zimbabwe, other sports have conquered emerging markets, embedded themselves in cultures and grown all around the world.
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Old 16th February 2017, 17:37   #63
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The ICC is much more concerned with internal squabbles than growing the game. For all his faults, and by no means did he do it for altrusic reason, but under Blatter FIFA did spread the game around the world. As for China, they had a plan in place to get to the 2019 WC, although I imagine this was scrapped when they realised what a closed shop the ICC are. If you look at what the Chinese are doing with football, if you scratch beneath the surface its so much more than big transfer fees, they would have probably been interested in doing something similar with cricket. Where were the ICC when it came to helping them reach their goals? Where were the ICC when Kenyan cricket ripped itself apart after reaching the semi finals of a World Cup?

While cricket has spent ten years debating whether Ireland should be allowed to play Zimbabwe, other sports have conquered emerging markets, embedded themselves in cultures and grown all around the world.
You raise some important points but ultimately, we have to ask, what is the ICC? I think there was an article on it recently in the Guardian and even for someone like me who follows the sport, I can't quite pinpoint what the ICC is.

There's the headquarters in Dubai and then there's a seperate entity which fetaures representatives from the test playing nations. The latter has more power than the staff working in the so called ICC HQ.

This raises another question: what is the purpose of the ICC? Is it to filter self interest through their national representatives or to serve the game of cricket beyond simply the financial incentives. It is one of the oddest governing bodies of any sport and one, which in essence, does not currently govern anything with the power of the big three overriding the power of the ICC staff.

However, the issues and possible outcomes raised in the last meeting could add something positive to the sport, not just the purse strings of a select few. The proposed 9-3 test system (9 main test playing nations and 3 bottom tier nations) not only adds context and something to work towards for fans and players alike but also the possibility that 5-10 years down the line there could be two genuine test tables with promotions and relegations with at least another 7 test playing nations.

Sadly, all of this only works if the structure of the ICC actually becomes...coherent at least.
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Old 16th February 2017, 17:41   #64
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Afghanistan beat Zimbabwe in an ODI today. Won by D/L but a win's a win and all that.
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Old 16th February 2017, 17:59   #65
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Afghanistan beat Zimbabwe in an ODI today. Won by D/L but a win's a win and all that.
I didn't think there was much question that Afghanistan's a better ODI team than Zimbabwe.
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Old 16th February 2017, 20:06   #66
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Afghanistan beat Zimbabwe in an ODI today. Won by D/L but a win's a win and all that.
One team that doesn't play test cricket beats a side that shouldn't play test cricket in a shortened ODI tells us what?
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Old 16th February 2017, 20:12   #67
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At present Test cricket is restricted to ten countries. There are billions of people in the world who will never be able to dream of representing their side in the pinnacle of the game. That isn't the mark of a sport that is truly global. It isn't a 'product' to sell, it's a sport. And as for the quality not being good, do you think Moldova vs Cyprus is a football fixture high on quality? A Test between Holland and Ireland might be a damn site more interesting than watching Australia get walloped by India. With this elitist approach it is no wonder cricket fails to compete with the bigger sports.
There are millions of people in the UK who don't dream of playing cricket any more because of the elitist attitude of the game and the counties which has destroyed it's popular appeal. But on that discussion we're not allowed to compare to football to make any points.

About a quarter of the world's population are in countries that play cricket. It's hardly struggling for potential audiences. Spread it to other countries through t20 and one day cricket, not by a colonial era demand that they are only worthy of full member status if the arbitrary standard of five day cricket.
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Old 16th February 2017, 20:18   #68
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There are millions of people in the UK who don't dream of playing cricket any more because of the elitist attitude of the game and the counties which has destroyed it's popular appeal. But on that discussion we're not allowed to compare to football to make any points.

About a quarter of the world's population are in countries that play cricket. It's hardly struggling for potential audiences. Spread it to other countries through t20 and one day cricket, not by a colonial era demand that they are only worthy of full member status if the arbitrary standard of five day cricket.
That comes back to the old problem of the associates getting enough matches. As highlighted in the book Second XI: Cricket in its outposts, a lack of games is the perennial problem for all associates. They all want to play the major nations but they cant get the games.

This summer will be interesting as some of the full members are playing a few games against the likes of Ireland and Scotland as warm-ups for the CT but will those teams get the same number of matches next year?
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Old 16th February 2017, 21:58   #69
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There are millions of people in the UK who don't dream of playing cricket any more because of the elitist attitude of the game and the counties which has destroyed it's popular appeal. But on that discussion we're not allowed to compare to football to make any points.

About a quarter of the world's population are in countries that play cricket. It's hardly struggling for potential audiences. Spread it to other countries through t20 and one day cricket, not by a colonial era demand that they are only worthy of full member status if the arbitrary standard of five day cricket.
That means your missing out on three quarters of the population, hardly something to brag about. Why presume that other countries will only be interested in the shorter form of the game? We should look to spread all forms of cricket, not just the bits that we assume people might like.
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Old 17th February 2017, 08:38   #70
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This is the point about the utterly self-serving decision not to promote cricket by having a t20 tournament in the Olympics. People from other parts of the world who have no background to liking cricket are hardly going to get interest in a highly nuanced game such as test cricket that has next to no following outside the core countries and even a marginal one in many countries where test cricket is played. Yet one of the reasons not to go for it was that it would have caused too much disruption to the County Championship.

Rugby Union has hardly been the most progressive sport over the years, yet they had a superb 7s tournament in Rio. The Chinese have shown interest in t20 and it would be the ideal way to introduce the game to a wider audience.
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Old 17th February 2017, 10:09   #71
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That comes back to the old problem of the associates getting enough matches. As highlighted in the book Second XI: Cricket in its outposts, a lack of games is the perennial problem for all associates. They all want to play the major nations but they cant get the games.

This summer will be interesting as some of the full members are playing a few games against the likes of Ireland and Scotland as warm-ups for the CT but will those teams get the same number of matches next year?
I would welcome more opportunities for the best associates to play the full member nations in limited over formats.

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That means your missing out on three quarters of the population, hardly something to brag about. Why presume that other countries will only be interested in the shorter form of the game? We should look to spread all forms of cricket, not just the bits that we assume people might like.
The popularity of the different formats of the game among established cricketing nations would suggest that t20 or ODIs would be the best way of extending the game beyond them. You are also presumably aware of the ICC World League which features quite a few different countries, from Italy to Papua New Guinea to Nigeria. A lot of these teams are made up of ex-pats though, mostly from the sub-continent.

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This is the point about the utterly self-serving decision not to promote cricket by having a t20 tournament in the Olympics. People from other parts of the world who have no background to liking cricket are hardly going to get interest in a highly nuanced game such as test cricket that has next to no following outside the core countries and even a marginal one in many countries where test cricket is played. Yet one of the reasons not to go for it was that it would have caused too much disruption to the County Championship.

Rugby Union has hardly been the most progressive sport over the years, yet they had a superb 7s tournament in Rio. The Chinese have shown interest in t20 and it would be the ideal way to introduce the game to a wider audience.
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Old 17th February 2017, 11:15   #72
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This is the point about the utterly self-serving decision not to promote cricket by having a t20 tournament in the Olympics. People from other parts of the world who have no background to liking cricket are hardly going to get interest in a highly nuanced game such as test cricket that has next to no following outside the core countries and even a marginal one in many countries where test cricket is played. Yet one of the reasons not to go for it was that it would have caused too much disruption to the County Championship.

Rugby Union has hardly been the most progressive sport over the years, yet they had a superb 7s tournament in Rio. The Chinese have shown interest in t20 and it would be the ideal way to introduce the game to a wider audience.
When China launched their targets in 2012 there was no mention of T20 cricket, it was to achieve Test status by 2020 and to compete at the 2019 World Cup.

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I would welcome more opportunities for the best associates to play the full member nations in limited over formats.
Why only limited overs?

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The popularity of the different formats of the game among established cricketing nations would suggest that t20 or ODIs would be the best way of extending the game beyond them. You are also presumably aware of the ICC World League which features quite a few different countries, from Italy to Papua New Guinea to Nigeria. A lot of these teams are made up of ex-pats though, mostly from the sub-continent.
The World cricket League was List A last time I checked. I would say that different cultures will react to different forms of cricket differently. It would be a mistake to assume that no other country is ever going to be interested in first class cricket.

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Old 17th February 2017, 11:43   #73
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When China launched their targets in 2012 there was no mention of T20 cricket, it was to achieve Test status by 2020 and to compete at the 2019 World Cup.
Well neither of those things are going to happen. T20 of any format is a great leveller and to me, by far the simplest way to introduce people to the game. In any case, if you played cricket when you were young 20 overs was the limit that you were likely to play simply because games would struggle to last that long and of course the ball didn't often tend to go over the boundary too much either. That said, it is not too different for my batting today.................
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Old 17th February 2017, 12:47   #74
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When China launched their targets in 2012 there was no mention of T20 cricket, it was to achieve Test status by 2020 and to compete at the 2019 World Cup.

Why only limited overs?

The World cricket League was List A last time I checked. I would say that different cultures will react to different forms of cricket differently. It would be a mistake to assume that no other country is ever going to be interested in first class cricket.
While I agree with much of your criticism of the ICC, what's your objection to trying to aim towards tests if they end up being feasible via limited overs cricket and non test longer form games? What on earth makes you think China could play meaningful test matches by 2020, short of poaching players? There's no structure to support that quantum leap.
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Old 17th February 2017, 13:06   #75
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While I agree with much of your criticism of the ICC, what's your objection to trying to aim towards tests if they end up being feasible via limited overs cricket and non test longer form games? What on earth makes you think China could play meaningful test matches by 2020, short of poaching players? There's no structure to support that quantum leap.
It was the Chinese' own plans. They had some fairly ambitious plans in place to increase the amount of coaches and players. I imagine there was a reason why they thought this was achievable, and they weren't just pulling numbers out of the air. These plans were made eight years ago, but reading about the situation it appears the ICC did nothing to support or advise them, and momentum and interest was lost.
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Old 17th February 2017, 15:00   #76
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It was the Chinese' own plans. They had some fairly ambitious plans in place to increase the amount of coaches and players. I imagine there was a reason why they thought this was achievable, and they weren't just pulling numbers out of the air. These plans were made eight years ago, but reading about the situation it appears the ICC did nothing to support or advise them, and momentum and interest was lost.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/cricke...MIYexbjvJ.html

This is from last year and suggests that there is something going on with help from India and Pakistan.
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Old 17th February 2017, 16:57   #77
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Old 17th February 2017, 16:59   #78
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Old 17th February 2017, 17:18   #79
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Wrong thread, no?
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Old 18th February 2017, 12:07   #80
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Well neither of those things are going to happen. T20 of any format is a great leveller and to me, by far the simplest way to introduce people to the game. In any case, if you played cricket when you were young 20 overs was the limit that you were likely to play simply because games would struggle to last that long and of course the ball didn't often tend to go over the boundary too much either. That said, it is not too different for my batting today.................
yep, school cricket was 20 overs for me too but I assume the Chinese were looking to play more than just school cricket
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