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Old 7th September 2017, 08:49   #101
Rebelstar
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aussies looking strong favourites to win now, deshis five down and not many ahead with key wickets of Tamim Iqbal and Shakib Al-Hasan out already and just Mushfiqur Rahim of the trio who are the strongest of their batsmen left.

Are Bangladesh competitive now? Making more of home advantage for sure, Test wins over England and Australia in the past 12 months, and a win in Sri Lanka but then Sri Lanka are not the side they were.

Last 10 Tests

India P10 W8 D1 L1
South Africa P10 W5 D2 L3
Australia** P10 W5 D1 L4
New Zealand P10 W4 D2 L4
England P10 W4 D0 L6
Bangladesh** P10 W3 D2 L5
West Indies P10 W3 D1 L6
Pakistan P10 W3 D0 L7
Sri Lanka P10 W3 D0 L7
Zimbabwe* P10 W1 D0 L9

*goes back 4 years almost to the day, and that their last win (over Pakistan, way off being in their last 10)

**Bangladesh may lose their current Test so the draw 10 games ago would become a loss and P10 W3 D1 L6, same as West Indies. Australia would replace a draw with a win - if they win - and go to P10 W6 D1 L3 having not won any of their past 4 off the back of 5 in a row.

England lost 4 in a row in India, India the only side in strong form albeit 7 of the 10 Tests in India and the other 3 in Sri Lanka against a not very good Sri Lankan side.

So Bangladesh are heading upwards it seems, but in no small part because Sri Lanka are on the way down, Pakistan inconsistent as ever, and still some way off doing more than causing an upset here and there. We'll see how they far on tour, besides Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe the previous side they beat away was a weakened West Indies side and before that no one.....

Let's see a single Test win over Pakistan, New Zealand, Australia, India, England, or South Africa away..... even over Pakistan in UAE may not prove much.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:07   #102
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Lyon's best figures in a test.

Ominous timing..
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:48   #103
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Lyon's best figures in a test.

Ominous timing..
Fortunately for England the Ashes is being held in Australia rather than Bangladesh.
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Old 7th September 2017, 11:58   #104
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Fortunately for England the Ashes is being held in Australia rather than Bangladesh.
Cummins is looking rather promising though. If their somewhat injury prone quicks get on the park that is going to be the overwhelming issue though. Let alone the 3 questionable picks in the top 5 there is at least 1 established batsman whom you would expect to struggle versus their pace attack down under, let alone Lyon picking off the scraps.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:11   #105
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Fortunately for England the Ashes is being held in Australia rather than Bangladesh.
Does make you think how well-regarded Lyon could be if he had played his tests in the same places as Ashwin (who has something like 250 of his 290 test wickets in Asia). Never really talked about as being among the best spinners out there but there's not much in it at all.
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:37   #106
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Does make you think how well-regarded Lyon could be if he had played his tests in the same places as Ashwin (who has something like 250 of his 290 test wickets in Asia). Never really talked about as being among the best spinners out there but there's not much in it at all.
I think he's probably the best all surface spinner going at the moment
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Old 7th September 2017, 12:55   #107
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I think he's probably the best all surface spinner going at the moment
I'd go along with that. Considering half his tests are in Oz, where he averages about 34.5 compared to his overall record of just under 32, he's had to do pretty well to hold his place in the side. He is a curious kind of spinner, though, given how little turn he actually tends to get most of the time. Can't think of anyone else who bowls like him, really, where so much of the spin is topspin.
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Old 7th September 2017, 13:06   #108
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I think he's probably the best all surface spinner going at the moment
Not too long ago it was claimed that he wouldn't get into the England team. Probably true. The defence for leaving him out would presumably be that in the absence of any serious contenders one might as well pick the better batsman.
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Old 7th September 2017, 13:18   #109
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I'd go along with that. Considering half his tests are in Oz, where he averages about 34.5 compared to his overall record of just under 32, he's had to do pretty well to hold his place in the side. He is a curious kind of spinner, though, given how little turn he actually tends to get most of the time. Can't think of anyone else who bowls like him, really, where so much of the spin is topspin.
More slow bowler than spinner, I guess.

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Not too long ago it was claimed that he wouldn't get into the England team. Probably true. The defence for leaving him out would presumably be that in the absence of any serious contenders one might as well pick the better batsman.
Well even last year the Aussie pundits were questioning whether he should be in the side or not. He's not been a particularly loved/appreciated player.
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Old 7th September 2017, 13:27   #110
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Not too long ago it was claimed that he wouldn't get into the England team. Probably true. The defence for leaving him out would presumably be that in the absence of any serious contenders one might as well pick the better batsman.
Yes I put the question to everyone on here and was gobsmacked many wouldn't pick him for England. An accurate finger spinner with a bit of nouse is likely to be successful in the DRS era.
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Old 7th September 2017, 18:09   #111
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More slow bowler than spinner, I guess.

Well even last year the Aussie pundits were questioning whether he should be in the side or not. He's not been a particularly loved/appreciated player.

True. He was in horrible form in bath state and test Cricket during that South Africa series. Would have been dropped against Pakistan had SOK been fit.

He is a different bowler now though. Before it was the same delivery a thousand times a la Panesar, but he's been bowling more round-arm and changing his pace in Asia. Shows you Spin is a craft you will always been learning at, and credit to him.
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Old 7th September 2017, 18:45   #112
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Fortunately for England the Ashes is being held in Australia rather than Bangladesh.
But its another area of the team where Oz > Eng
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Old 7th September 2017, 21:17   #113
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Well even last year the Aussie pundits were questioning whether he should be in the side or not. He's not been a particularly loved/appreciated player.
Yes, sometimes not even by his own captain:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australi...y/1074568.html

Not to say that Smith didn't have a point in his criticism. But still seemed unusually harsh in public given Lyon's achievements.
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Old 7th September 2017, 21:19   #114
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Shows you Spin is a craft you will always been learning at, and credit to him.
And, at 29, he's perhaps not even reached his peak as a spin bowler. Could see some great stuff from him in the coming years.
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Old 7th September 2017, 23:02   #115
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Just to chime in on the Lyon discussion, how you bowl successfully in the subcontinent as a spinner tends to be different from what works on Australian or English surfaces.

Hence, up until 2016, his performances in Asia was rather poor-

2011-2012 Sri Lanka v. Australia- 8 wickets @36.88
2012-2013 India v. Australia- 15 wickets @37.33
2014-2015 Pakistan v. Australia- 3 wickets @140.67

In this time, his performances in Australia/ England/ New Zealand were very good with him frequently being among wickets averaging in the 20s and early 30s in most series.

Post the New Zealand series in early 2016, he probably started preparing for the subcontinent tours of Sri Lanka and India and probably made tweaks in his bowling.
His performances from there-
2016 Sri Lanka v. Australia- 16 wickets@31.94
2016-2017 India v. Australia- 19 wickets @25.26
2017-2018 Bangladesh v. Australia- 22 wickets @14.31

Conversely, in that time, his performances in Australia have fallen.

2016-2017 Australia v. South Africa- 6 wickets @57.67
2016-2017 Australia v. Pakistan- 11 wickets @45.64

So, him returning to Australia now would be interesting since, while I have made my conclusions based on fairly obvious statistics, as you can see, the sample size is still on the smaller side. I'd be interested in seeing how he does when he gets back- whether he can unlearn some of the things he's used on subcontinent pitches should probably dictate how his Ashes would be.
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Old 8th September 2017, 00:50   #116
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Interesting stats - thanks. As you say, the sample sizes are small but you're completely right on the subcontinent v Eng/Aus point. Ashwin's challenge over the next 18 months is to do the reverse of what Lyon has managed.
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Old 8th September 2017, 18:06   #117
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Cummins is looking rather promising though. If their somewhat injury prone quicks get on the park that is going to be the overwhelming issue though. Let alone the 3 questionable picks in the top 5 there is at least 1 established batsman whom you would expect to struggle versus their pace attack down under, let alone Lyon picking off the scraps.
If the Aussies can keep Hazlewood, Starc, Cummins and Pattinson fit throughout the Ashes they'll win comfortably.
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Old 10th September 2017, 15:51   #118
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True. He was in horrible form in bath state and test Cricket during that South Africa series. Would have been dropped against Pakistan had SOK been fit.

He is a different bowler now though. Before it was the same delivery a thousand times a la Panesar, but he's been bowling more round-arm and changing his pace in Asia. Shows you Spin is a craft you will always been learning at, and credit to him.
He did look pretty poor and not particularly well used last (Aussie) summer I could see why questions were being asked.
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Old 12th September 2017, 00:37   #119
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If the Aussies can keep Hazlewood, Starc, Cummins and Pattinson fit throughout the Ashes they'll win comfortably.

And then some.
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Old 13th September 2017, 12:11   #120
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