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Old 4th September 2017, 14:25   #641
JRC67
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Originally Posted by sanskritsimon View Post
I think you get declarations in county cricket because there are serious points at stake, and you're always competing against the other teams in the division as well as the oppo in any given game. But captains routinely get criticised for devaluing the game in a gamble for points. By contrast, a test series is generally long enough for the better team to win more games than the oppo without such measures being necessary. So perhaps such declarations are more likely in short series. Also I think that Root probably felt some pressure to try to win this series in the second match in order to free up the final match for some pre-Ashes experimentation.
Certainly the suspicion.
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Old 6th September 2017, 10:23   #642
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Part of the art of setting a declaration is understanding the mindset of the opposition. W Indies were down and out on Day 4 and then Root gave them hope (literally). Had he batted on and given them no chance of victory, would they have had it in themselves to bat out 80 overs for a draw? I sincerely doubt it.
We will never know, of course.

This is all hindsight. I reckon most would say the decision was not a bad one given the match situation.
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Old 6th September 2017, 11:00   #643
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We will never know, of course.

This is all hindsight. I reckon most would say the decision was not a bad one given the match situation.
True, I just find it ironic that had Strauss or Cook been captain, we would at worst be 1-0 up going into the Final Test and those two would probably have taken a volley of abuse in the process.

We are now at 1-1 and Root was praised for his declaration. Work that out....
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Old 6th September 2017, 11:19   #644
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Originally Posted by Sir Coolerking View Post
True, I just find it ironic that had Strauss or Cook been captain, we would at worst be 1-0 up going into the Final Test and those two would probably have taken a volley of abuse in the process.

We are now at 1-1 and Root was praised for his declaration. Work that out....
All part of the Joe Root myth. Ever since he came into our consciousness it's been the case that he can do no wrong and is the cure for all ills. The world and all our souls will soon be redeemed in full. Who could fail to have been moved by the sight of him in the field towards the end of the Headingley test, racked with suffering and self-doubt as a result of his own absolutely correct decision?
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Old 6th September 2017, 13:34   #645
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All part of the Joe Root myth. Ever since he came into our consciousness it's been the case that he can do no wrong and is the cure for all ills. The world and all our souls will soon be redeemed in full. Who could fail to have been moved by the sight of him in the field towards the end of the Headingley test, racked with suffering and self-doubt as a result of his own absolutely correct decision?
Tbh I struggle to think of much he's done wrong since he played for England. He rightly got dropped during the last Ashes tour when his form deserted him, but other than that it's largely been success after success personally. I think it's more the commentators were saving face because they'd been banging on about declarations for so long and it turns out they had been largely talking crap, as the Windies proved, rather than being gentle to young Joe.
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Old 6th September 2017, 16:37   #646
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Originally Posted by Sir Coolerking View Post
True, I just find it ironic that had Strauss or Cook been captain, we would at worst be 1-0 up going into the Final Test and those two would probably have taken a volley of abuse in the process.

We are now at 1-1 and Root was praised for his declaration. Work that out....
That assumes that whoever had been the captain, the decision would have been his alone. That is not true, of course. It seems a little unfair that Root is being pilloried from some quarters over a perfectly rational decision.
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Old 6th September 2017, 16:44   #647
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Part of the art of setting a declaration is understanding the mindset of the opposition. W Indies were down and out on Day 4 and then Root gave them hope (literally). Had he batted on and given them no chance of victory, would they have had it in themselves to bat out 80 overs for a draw? I sincerely doubt it.
But there is another version of this argument that goes: West Indies were down and out on Day 4 having spent x bazillion overs in the field; giving them as little rest as possible gives you the chance to nip out a couple of batsmen and victory is essentially assured on the fifth day.

I wouldn't have declared because I think 9/10 times there are very few sides who can survive 90 overs but not 98 given the match condition. The pitch was demonstrably flat enough to score plenty of runs, and two of their batsmen had scored tons already. But I can see the argument for a declaration.

Chances are Root was influenced by Cook getting lambasted in the press for not declaring early enough. Of course, the blame is always on the captain, which is precisely why you shouldn't let yourself be influenced by that kind of thing...

I don't think he'll be doing it again.
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Old 6th September 2017, 16:51   #648
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also Root didn't handle his bowlers very well. Anderson was overbowled while Stokes only got 4 overs. Strange.
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Old 6th September 2017, 17:05   #649
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I don't think he'll be doing it again.
Why not? I would. He'd win next time, and the time after that too.
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Old 6th September 2017, 18:02   #650
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Why not? I would. He'd win next time, and the time after that too.
I guess the big argument against the declaration is is 3 and a half an over is really a par scoring rate now. Really a good declaration should look achievable but the batting team need to chase. The other argument it was made too early is the West Indies are mainly right handed bats, so really you want a slow left armer or leg spinner as part of your bowling attack if you want a spinner to bowl a team out quickly, unless it's a real racing ideally with variable bounce. As a declaration it was one where the West Indies just had to play at their natural pace. 360 and they would have had to try and force it. If they had taken wickets on the 4th day during those few overs the equation would have changed, but they didn't.
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Old 6th September 2017, 20:00   #651
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The reason so few teams historically score 300 to win in the 4th innings of a test is that the team's batting 3rd rarely give them a sniff of a chance. Headingley was still an excellent batting wicket on the 5th day as we saw.

Having said all of that, you'd normally back Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes to bowl out a side out faced with chasing 320 on day 5 in England. Credit Windies for previously unseen determination and resolve to get the job done.
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Old 7th September 2017, 09:12   #652
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Why not? I would. He'd win next time, and the time after that too.
No, I expect it will be like Australian captains and not enforcing the follow on since the Laxman test.
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