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Old 9th September 2017, 18:47   #341
JRC67
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Maybe not, but a cheap dismissal would certainly count against them.

We'll have to see. Whatever happens, they're going to have Hameed, Jennings, Hales in the squad to replace one or both of these two... who, to their credit, have picked up pretty little thirties
Its going to be an interesting selection meeting for the tour. With the changes in the way the season is structured I've only seen 3 days on county cricket so I've less of an opinion than ever before about who I would and wouldn't take. The danger with going back to players who have been found wanting before is they may not have made the changes which were exposed at the higher level. As a rule the player was in some kind of form when first selected, so just making some runs at county level doesn't mean they now have the game to be successful. Its hard to have an opinion on that if you haven't seen them play. Ballance makes it easy to have an opinion as he's been pretty vocal that he is just going to keep on playing the same way.

5 seamers
Stokes and Ali
One spinner and maybe Crane as an extra for development
2 keepers (Bairstow plus one)

That really only gives space for 6 specialist batsmen, 7 if they have a squad of 17. That only gives cover for 2 of Westley, Malan and Stoneman; all 3 of whom its easy to imagine being unselectable by Perth or Melbourne. England may well end up in the position they reached early in the India season where there were no batting options as several batsmen were so badly exposed they weren't able to pick them.
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Old 9th September 2017, 19:08   #342
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Never fear; the - ahem- expert knowledge of Gower, Warne et al will be focused on Ashes selection tomorrow morning on Sky.
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Old 9th September 2017, 19:12   #343
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I might give that a swerve...
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Old 9th September 2017, 19:17   #344
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Entirely disagree. England have shown time and time again their bowling isnt world class in the shorter format and it would do no harm to have a 260+ wicket man in the side. Doesn't have to play every match but he needs to be there, advising the younger guys, playing the big games.

Guys with 35-40 averages shouldn't be bowling in a world game.
Ah, now Jimmy offering advice, his bowling wisdom, to younger, less experienced guys around the squad. That I could go with. Jimmy (and Stewie) around the ODI/T20 squads is fine. Playing? No. There are no big games in any format before the Gabba.
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Old 9th September 2017, 19:20   #345
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I might give that a swerve...
Pitch it on leg and hit the top of off. Always good.
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Old 9th September 2017, 19:24   #346
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Yes I think its pointless trying to compare performances across eras.

What's more useful is comparing with peers in the same era. So for example, during Anderson's career, his performance level (average 27.6) is closer to Herath (27.9) or Johnson (28.4) then Steyn (22.3) or Murali (21.7). Which is about right: Anderson is a very good bowler but he's not quite in the highest rung of bowlers. There's a fair difference between his home (24) v overseas (33) average as well, not that his overseas record is terrible.

Course, when you bring longevity into the mix, Anderson has been phenomenal. Though even here, we need to caveat slightly. The English players of this era have an advantage over everyone else in terms of the volume of Test cricket they play. Of course, you have to maintain the fitness needed to play that number of matches, but it is an advantage all the same (not an unfairly derived advantage of course!)

Its for this reason that say Alastair Cook will end up close to, if not the highest Test run scorer of all time, but as good as Cook is, it would be a stretch to say he was the dominant batsman of his era.
Forgetting all the stats, Anderson is the most skilful seam-swing bowler I've seen. And it's a skill he's got better at with age. Whether he'll last 6 months or five years, who knows, bodies can suddenly stop functioning at his age.

He works batsmen over almost like a spinner. You can predict what's coming yet still gets his man, such is his skill and accuracy. Over a career I can see why you'd put him below the top tier but at the level he's bowled at, particularly in England in recent years, I think he stands on a par with McGrath and Steyn as the best this century.
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Old 9th September 2017, 19:42   #347
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Might I say we should sign off this thread with Bye Bye Blowers. (Not necessarily now)
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Old 9th September 2017, 20:17   #348
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Forgetting all the stats, Anderson is the most skilful seam-swing bowler I've seen. And it's a skill he's got better at with age. Whether he'll last 6 months or five years, who knows, bodies can suddenly stop functioning at his age.

He works batsmen over almost like a spinner. You can predict what's coming yet still gets his man, such is his skill and accuracy. Over a career I can see why you'd put him below the top tier but at the level he's bowled at, particularly in England in recent years, I think he stands on a par with McGrath and Steyn as the best this century.
There's no question that he has utter mastery of English conditions and who can doubt his immense skill. But even during his prime years, he's rarely been able to consistently dominate in conditions that are less naturally favorable to his style of bowling than English conditions are. A bit like Anil Kumble: Kumble was masterful in India, and got better away over time, but he was never the consistently potent threat away from home that he was in India.

Of course, he's had wonderful series like Australia 2010 and Pakistan 2015. But the odd series does not make a bowler good enough to be put in the McGrath/Steyn class, at least in my book. Which is hardly a criticism, of course.
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Old 9th September 2017, 20:25   #349
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Westley perhaps but why does Cook need to turn out? Do Essex need Cook? I hear they have some promising young players. Ship the old guy off to Australia early with his wife and kids. Soak up some sun. Essex don't need him. Depends what he wants to do (within reason).
Essex do need him and Cook genuinely loves playing for Essex. And a Championship medal is one of the few items missing from his glittering career.
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Old 9th September 2017, 20:37   #350
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There's no question that he has utter mastery of English conditions and who can doubt his immense skill. But even during his prime years, he's rarely been able to consistently dominate in conditions that are less naturally favorable to his style of bowling than English conditions are. A bit like Anil Kumble: Kumble was masterful in India, and got better away over time, but he was never the consistently potent threat away from home that he was in India.

Of course, he's had wonderful series like Australia 2010 and Pakistan 2015. But the odd series does not make a bowler good enough to be put in the McGrath/Steyn class, at least in my book. Which is hardly a criticism, of course.
He's also been lucky at home with injuries and gone into quite a few way series undercooked with injuries. I think he had the skill set to be relatively successful in Asia when he is cutting the ball but he clearly struggled for rhythm when he got fit in India. At times we've rushed him back too quickly.
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Old 9th September 2017, 20:45   #351
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Cliché.. But with Jimmy his record really does speak for itself.
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Old 9th September 2017, 20:46   #352
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Essex do need him and Cook genuinely loves playing for Essex. And a Championship medal is one of the few items missing from his glittering career.
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Old 9th September 2017, 21:40   #353
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You should see it where I live. Main road in front of my house and road at the back were like rivers had an hour ago.
Had a storm here but sunny yesterday afternoon when it showery and cloudy at Lords. Suppose it balances out.
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Old 9th September 2017, 21:45   #354
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Comprehensive and emphatic win in the final analysis though the Windies gave it a good effort in the face of Jimmy's brilliance.

Too bad that Roach was unable to do much in the second innings, since clearly West Indies fast bowlers are their strength once more. Roach and Gabriel together with an improving batting lineup offers reason for optimism. If only they could sort out their wicketkeeper they'd have a nucleus of a team for the future.
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Old 9th September 2017, 22:25   #355
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Delighted to see England win so comprehensively but I had rather hoped it would be a slightly more interesting day. Glad to see Stokes get MOM and Jimmy get MOS.
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Old 10th September 2017, 17:32   #356
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I'm not sure about that, surely it's more of an indicator of the difference between the bowlers in the same side and the number of bowlers for that matter. Some bowlers just take a lot of wickets because they're the best bowler in their team and therefore tend to bowl the most overs (especially spinners in Asia), obviously they're probably going to be good bowlers if they're the best in a test team but not necessarily great.

If the WI team of the 70's and 80's had used 5 quicks on a regular basis and shared the wickets round more would that have made them any less great?
Indeed and a very good point. Yet another imponderable (or at least an incalculable) that makes such comparisons very unreliable.
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Old 10th September 2017, 17:34   #357
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Shame this Test promised to be a close and exciting conclusion to the series, a grand finale actually turning out to be a bit of a damp squib...
Preceded by a flash in the pan at Headingley.

Not a good series on which to base our expectations for the Ashes.
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Old 11th September 2017, 14:31   #358
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After a previous West Indies tour, in 2009 as I recall, it appeared Ravi Bopara was the answer to England's middle order requirements, and we all know how that one ended up. Cook, Root and Stokes are going to need to play out of their skins in the Ashes. If they do, the outcome could be positive.
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Old 11th September 2017, 17:30   #359
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He's also been lucky at home with injuries and gone into quite a few way series undercooked with injuries. I think he had the skill set to be relatively successful in Asia when he is cutting the ball but he clearly struggled for rhythm when he got fit in India. At times we've rushed him back too quickly.
Yes playing while injured or no match practice hasn't helped in his career. Reminds me of something ..

2010 Tremlett broke Anderson's rib in a boxing match and there was a rush to be fit for the 1st Ashes Test. 24 at 26.04
2014 His rib was broken in the 2nd Test from a Siddle delivery and he played the 3 Tests with that broken rib. 14 at 43.92. Hope that was the reason for a poor tour.
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Old 12th September 2017, 00:47   #360
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Long time no hear. You on fighting form? S. Hope has some stylee.
I'm good thanks. Hope all is well with yourself & others.
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