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Old 23rd September 2017, 14:34   #121
Redmachine
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I reckon there might be one or two wtf, left field decisions. Possibly related to the second spinner, back up seamer or reserve keeper positions.
Can only be Buttler or Foakes for 2nd keeper. Would Foakes be left field? I suppose we might see Crane or Rashid in the squad. More left field would be one of the Somerset spinners, but just can't see it.

In terms of seamers, I'm pretty sure they'll settle for Finn, Wood (if fit) and Ball. They like to stay loyal. But I suppose that Plunkett, Porter, Curran, Helm and Garton are in with a small chance. It really is a small chance though.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 15:20   #122
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If they take Porter they'll ruin him.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 15:29   #123
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If they take Porter they'll ruin him.
From what I saw against Warwickshire, he was very much a handful with the way everything angled in to the batsmen, but then would be able to nip the ball away off the seam or just get one to straighten a bit. I'm not sure a Kookaburra in Australia would give him as much success, especially as he's not that quick or tall. He's had an incredible season so I would be happy for him to play international cricket, but as you say, I'm not sure this tour is the best for him. Maybe New Zealand afterwards would be better. I'd probably go with Finn and Plunkett as the back up seamers.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 17:34   #124
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Would people advocating Finn and Plunkett be opposed to picking Buttler too? Or Wood?
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Old 23rd September 2017, 18:12   #125
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Would people advocating Finn and Plunkett be opposed to picking Buttler too? Or Wood?
I wouldn't take Wood as he can't retain any pace for long periods, but I don't mind who the backup keeper is.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 20:21   #126
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We're in a dismal hole. The playing XI contains several people whom no one expects to have a future in test cricket, and the rest of the squad -- as far as most of the proposals on this thread are concerned -- is composed almost exclusively of players who have been found wanting and discarded and I hope never play another test. There are lots of promising players around but no one wants them to play test cricket on the assumption that they'll be (a) cr@p and/or (b) ruined by the experience. The only decent players we've unearthed in recent years are either injured (TRJ, Hameed), or already discarded (Rashid, Jennings), or one season wonders (Woakes).
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Old 23rd September 2017, 20:31   #127
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We're in a dismal hole. The playing XI contains several people whom no one expects to have a future in test cricket, and the rest of the squad -- as far as most of the proposals on this thread are concerned -- is composed almost exclusively of players who have been found wanting and discarded and I hope never play another test. There are lots of promising players around but no one wants them to play test cricket on the assumption that they'll be (a) cr@p and/or (b) ruined by the experience. The only decent players we've unearthed in recent years are either injured (TRJ, Hameed), or already discarded (Rashid, Jennings), or one season wonders (Woakes).
Yeah but the Aussies will be lucky if they finish a match with three fit pace bowlers, let alone a series and their two best batsmen are a T20 specialist and a leg-spinner who only got a go in the side because Warney said he'd be a fair dinkum bloke in the dressing room.
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Old 24th September 2017, 05:29   #128
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We're in a dismal hole. The playing XI contains several people whom no one expects to have a future in test cricket, and the rest of the squad -- as far as most of the proposals on this thread are concerned -- is composed almost exclusively of players who have been found wanting and discarded and I hope never play another test. There are lots of promising players around but no one wants them to play test cricket on the assumption that they'll be (a) cr@p and/or (b) ruined by the experience. The only decent players we've unearthed in recent years are either injured (TRJ, Hameed), or already discarded (Rashid, Jennings), or one season wonders (Woakes).
I expected about 10 of the 11 to be pretty settled this summer but Jennings turning out to be dogturd and Hameed getting hurt, not giving Rashid a go and Woakes's form and fitness, we will be very lucky to stumble on a team that doesn't get thumped.
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Old 24th September 2017, 10:39   #129
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We're in a dismal hole. The playing XI contains several people whom no one expects to have a future in test cricket, and the rest of the squad -- as far as most of the proposals on this thread are concerned -- is composed almost exclusively of players who have been found wanting and discarded and I hope never play another test. There are lots of promising players around but no one wants them to play test cricket on the assumption that they'll be (a) cr@p and/or (b) ruined by the experience. The only decent players we've unearthed in recent years are either injured (TRJ, Hameed), or already discarded (Rashid, Jennings), or one season wonders (Woakes).
I love the way Woakes is a one season wonder any evidence for that other than the one test when he clearly wasn't ready to come back?
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Old 24th September 2017, 11:34   #130
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I love the way Woakes is a one season wonder any evidence for that other than the one test when he clearly wasn't ready to come back?
See here

Currently, the evidence that he is a one season wonder is more compelling than the evidence he is not.
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Old 24th September 2017, 16:03   #131
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See here

Currently, the evidence that he is a one season wonder is more compelling than the evidence he is not.
That's not really evidence though, he's only played 18 matches and 5 of those last 6 weren't exactly conductive to seam bowling.

I just see a bowler who's very steady who can bowl to a plan but probably doesn't move it quite enough or bowl quickly enough to be a great quick. I'd expect him to average around 30 at the end of his career which is where he is at the moment although as you said it's rather feast or famine.

As I said on another thread I think it would be better for him and England if he opened the bowling instead of Broad as he does get enough movement with a new ball to trouble batsman and he has a very accurate bouncer.
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Old 24th September 2017, 20:12   #132
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I expected about 10 of the 11 to be pretty settled this summer but Jennings turning out to be dogturd and Hameed getting hurt, not giving Rashid a go and Woakes's form and fitness, we will be very lucky to stumble on a team that doesn't get thumped.
I turned the radio on briefly today in case it was dry in Bristol and I caught a snippet of conversation, obviously about selection for the Ashes. One voice was suggesting Jennings at no. 3 and the other voice (Vaughan) was suggesting Vince. I switched off and vomited into the gutter. A few hours later I drummed up enough courage to switch on again briefly and they were talking about four-day "tests" as if they were bound to happen fairly soon. I switched off, vomited in the gutter again, and threw the radio in after it. The end is nigh, I tell you.

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I love the way Woakes is a one season wonder any evidence for that other than the one test when he clearly wasn't ready to come back?
One wonderfully good season is the evidence. Happy to change the judgement if he ever has another.
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Old 24th September 2017, 20:42   #133
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I turned the radio on briefly today in case it was dry in Bristol and I caught a snippet of conversation, obviously about selection for the Ashes. One voice was suggesting Jennings at no. 3 and the other voice (Vaughan) was suggesting Vince. I switched off and vomited into the gutter. A few hours later I drummed up enough courage to switch on again briefly and they were talking about four-day "tests" as if they were bound to happen fairly soon. I switched off, vomited in the gutter again, and threw the radio in after it. The end is nigh, I tell you.

One wonderfully good season is the evidence. Happy to change the judgement if he ever has another.
Who on earth was suggesting Jennings at 3? The guy is obviously terrible.
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Old 24th September 2017, 21:02   #134
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Who on earth was suggesting Jennings at 3? The guy is obviously terrible.
I'm glad to say I didn't listen for long enough to find out. Vince would be marginally better than Jennings, perhaps Vaughan has a point there, but I think a traffic cone would be better than either.
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Old 24th September 2017, 21:09   #135
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I turned the radio on briefly today in case it was dry in Bristol and I caught a snippet of conversation, obviously about selection for the Ashes. One voice was suggesting Jennings at no. 3 and the other voice (Vaughan) was suggesting Vince. I switched off and vomited into the gutter. A few hours later I drummed up enough courage to switch on again briefly and they were talking about four-day "tests" as if they were bound to happen fairly soon. I switched off, vomited in the gutter again, and threw the radio in after it. The end is nigh, I tell you.

One wonderfully good season is the evidence. Happy to change the judgement if he ever has another.
South Africans planning a 4day test this winter, so they are coming soon.
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Old 24th September 2017, 21:18   #136
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I'm glad to say I didn't listen for long enough to find out. Vince would be marginally better than Jennings, perhaps Vaughan has a point there, but I think a traffic cone would be better than either.
I've been following England since 2000 and I'm struggling to think of a worse batsman than Jennings. At least Vince plays with a bit of style.
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Old 24th September 2017, 21:46   #137
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I've been following England since 2000 and I'm struggling to think of a worse batsman than Jennings. At least Vince plays with a bit of style.
He was pretty dire by the time he was dropped but he's still got a better record than Malan and Westley! Lyth was pretty awful though, and Compton essentially shotless by the end of his second go.
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Old 24th September 2017, 21:47   #138
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Would people advocating Finn and Plunkett be opposed to picking Buttler too? Or Wood?
I would take Buttler, Wood, Finn and/or Plunkett.
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Old 24th September 2017, 22:44   #139
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Good point made by Athers about Morgan. He essentially only plays T20 outside of England matches. In a T20 you are only looking to face 20-30 balls. Therefore, he never spends any time at the crease. Has he stopped playing FC cricket because he's not interested or because Middlesex aren't picking him?
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Old 24th September 2017, 23:14   #140
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South Africans planning a 4day test this winter, so they are coming soon.
There you go then. But please use the inverted commas around the word "test". A four-day test is one wherein the fifth day was available but not required.
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